The Prolific Hub Podcast
The Prolific Hub Podcast is a digital archive & celebration of all things creativity, purpose and alignment.
The Prolific Hub Podcast
Touchable Bodies: A Conversation with the Author of Touch Me, I'm Sick, Margeaux Feldman | Ep. 90
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When was the last time someone truly touched you? Not just physically, but in a way that made you feel seen, safe, and wholly present? For those living with chronic illness, trauma, or both, this question carries layers of complexity that most wellness conversations never reach.
Margeaux Feldman joins us to discuss their forthcoming memoir "Touch Me, I'm Sick: A Memoir In Essays" which explores the profound relationship between physical touch, trauma, and chronic illness. From their own journey with fibromyalgia to broader cultural questions about who society deems "touchable," Margeaux challenges us to reconsider what intimacy means beyond conventional frameworks.
"We're creatures that crave and need physical touch," Margeaux explains, before unraveling how early experiences shape our relationship with our bodies. The conversation ventures into territory rarely discussed: how chronic pain transforms intimate relationships, the revolutionary potential of platonic touch between friends, and why learning to touch ourselves with kindness might be the most radical act of healing.
For anyone who has felt isolated in their pain or questioned their worthiness of connection, this conversation offers both validation and possibility. Whether you're navigating chronic illness, processing trauma, or simply seeking deeper understanding of human connection, Margeaux's insights invite you to reimagine what touch and intimacy can mean in your own life.
Order "Touch Me, I'm Sick: A Memoir In Essays" today and follow Margeaux's newsletter "CARESCAPES" for weekly reflections on healing, connection, and more. Checkout the archive on @softcore_trauma IG.
Episode Resources:
- Healing Trauma Through Memes & Humor ft. Margeaux Feldman | Ep. 33
- Samia Burton: EP. 50: No More Creeps At Christmas Dinner Ft. Lyvonne Briggs
- The Soft Ache of Touch Deprivation
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Hi everyone, welcome back to the show. I'm so excited to have you here and I'm so excited to be joined by a returning guest of the show, margo Feldman. Hi, margo. Hey, so happy to be back. I'm so happy to have you back. This is so cool.
Aliya Cheyanne:The last time we spoke, we talked all about academia. You're pursuing your MFA. Now you're back. You have it. You have your PhD. You're an author Touch me I'm sick A memoir of essays and I'm so excited to jump into all of the things. So thank you for coming back. This is going to be super fun.
Aliya Cheyanne:So before I turn it over to you to introduce yourself a little bit more for folks who have heard Margo's episode on the podcast in the past, we talked about a lot of things. We talked about everything academia, everything, healing and trauma and chronic illness and identity. We talked about so many things. We touched on loneliness, like that's a forever topic in the stratosphere right now. All these different things we talked about so much and I'm really just excited to revisit our conversation. Talk all about Margo's new book, touch Me I'm Sick, and really get into more about touch and how we relate to one another when folks have varying abilities or are living with disabilities or living with chronic illness, and I'm really excited about this. So before I keep going, I'm going to pause and kick it over to Margo. Margo, would you like to share anything about who you are in the world today?
Margeaux Feldman:Yeah, I mean, like many things are the same and many things have changed, as is being a human in the world, I guess.
Margeaux Feldman:So, as you mentioned, I recently completed an MFA in creative writing, so I've just been like leaning into like the spaciousness of being out of school and also just really thinking a lot, I guess, about where I want my attention and focus to be these days.
Margeaux Feldman:Having spent so many years on Instagram creating the account that I've run there, putting trauma education out into the world, and for many years in the form of memes, I've actually been really taking a step back from that, because I've just really recognized the ways in which social media and we'll, I'm sure, at some point, talk about all of like the things that have been so beautiful about being human on the internet.
Margeaux Feldman:I'm also really kind of like reckoning with I mean, I guess this is a very long winded way of saying I'm like recognizing in this season of my life, how challenging it is for me to just be present with, like what is here and now. And a lot of that comes from how I've been shaped by social media, and so I'm still a writer, I'm still an artist, social media, and so I'm still a writer. I'm still an artist Technically, I still exist on the internet and on Instagram, but I've really been redirecting a lot of my focus to just like being able to do more writing in the world, being able to do more reading and just being off of my phone more. So that's like, yeah, a little bit about how I'm joining you today.
Aliya Cheyanne:Yeah, I love that, and we'll talk a lot more about some of that later, because something we talked about the first time around was community and finding it through online spaces, and I've shared with you previously on the show, too, that I know of you and your work because of the Softcore Trauma page, and it've shared with you previously on the show, too, that I know of you and your work because of the soft core trauma page, and it was a page that really allowed me to feel really seen and to talk through things in a softer and a simpler and a sweeter way than I've been used to doing, and I know that you've also been taking some space for yourself and taking a step back from that page too, so I didn't want to bring it up right away.
Aliya Cheyanne:But I completely get it as someone who I'm definitely in the right now personally in the consume more than I create camp on that platform. But even consumption is so not good for us to the point where recently I've actually started implementing a social media limit for myself on my phone, like using some of the features that are on my phone to help me limit myself. I still have my days where I'm like one more minute, 15 more minutes, but my screen time has been atrocious and I'm trying to do better, especially when it comes to Instagram and TikTok, so I totally get taking the step back. So, yeah, let's dive into all the things.
Aliya Cheyanne:I don't want to. I want to talk about that, but I want to focus all about your book and Touch Me. I'm Sick and I really want to start with just the basic understanding and basic level of touch, because touch is so important. It means something different to everyone. Some of us need it, some of us don't really want it, some of us are deprived of it. At the end of the day, it's an essential part of human life and functioning. But I really kind of want to lean into the title of your book because when you hear the phrase touch me, I'm sick. It brings up so many different things. Like your mind can go in so many places, so I would love to talk more about like what touch means to you now in this season, but particularly when you're thinking about trauma or through the lens of like illness.
Aliya Cheyanne:What does that mean to you in this season?
Margeaux Feldman:Yeah, well, I mean thank you for like that introduction and like way into just like thinking about touch, Because, yeah, I mean as humans and even you know, like I mean there have been studies done with animals too, like we are creatures that like, crave and need physical touch.
Aliya Cheyanne:Yeah.
Margeaux Feldman:And you know, if we were lucky in, like our early developmental years, we received loving, caring touch from our caregivers. You know when we cried they would come and pick us up and hold us and soothe us, and you know we would come to understand touch as something that was very safe and very regulating for our nervous system. Unfortunately, a lot of folks grew up not receiving touch when they needed it or grew up having experiences of touch that wasn't consensual, and there's a lot of touch that's like really been like normalized. That's always so interesting to me and I think about this a lot with like kids as well as animals, where there's like you'll see parents introducing their children to someone new and they're like, oh, give this person a hug. And this child is like who are you Like? I don't know who you are in the world new. And they're like, oh, give this person a hug. And this child is like, who are you Like? I don't know who you are in the world, and they're scared. And then they continue to kind of like be prompted to touch rather than like being asked like do you want to give this person a hug? And having that like yes or no, be like celebrated.
Margeaux Feldman:So at a very, very young age, we're actually already like, really normalizing touch. That like isn't consensual, and I think too about it, even with like animals the number of humans in my life who've adopted sweet little traumatized animals who, like, don't want to be touched, like they're very afraid of touch, but we as humans, have been taught that like, like animals are there for us to just touch, and so I think there's a lot of ways in which we have come to see touch as something that we take and something that we are like, owed, and there's a million different examples I could give of this even strangers coming up to me on the street and grabbing my arm and moving it around so they can look at all of my tattoos, and there's like, no question of like, can I touch you? So yeah, so I think there's a million different reasons why we can grow up with very fraught relationships to touch and like. On the one hand, we have this like neurobiological desire and need for physical touch and then a lot of fear in our bodies that we might not even understand. Why am I afraid of giving this person a hug? Why do I not like to be hugged? What is making me uncomfortable here? What is making me uncomfortable here, and so we have this like kind of gap, both and you know, living within us.
Margeaux Feldman:That actually creates a lot of like inner chaos and turmoil when it comes to fostering intimate bonds with others, um, and so I mean, those are just some of the ways in which I'm thinking about touch and for the book, it really kind of begins with situating my own trauma around touch within, like a history of sexual assault, yeah, and yeah, touch being something that that was done to me in ways that I didn't even fully understand, I didn't want.
Margeaux Feldman:And then my own journey towards seeking out touch, but in ways that actually just replicated the trauma. Because, like, that's what we often do when we have trauma you think that we're going to try to avoid the things that traumatize us, but actually, if we haven't processed the trauma, we seek out experiences that remind us of that, because that's what we know, and we think that, like, okay, if we seek it out, then we have control this time. So there's all of that already, which is like a lot, and then you know, so this is, you know, like me going through life being like wanting and craving touch and intimacy and consistently seeking it out from people who would harm me and not care for me, and then doing the work to shift that through my own healing so that I could enter into relationships where I could receive safe, healthy, loving touch.
Aliya Cheyanne:Yeah.
Margeaux Feldman:And then I get sick and for me I have the diagnosis of fibromyalgia, which kind of like a catch-all diagnosis in a way, where basically I just have like widespread chronic pain in my body. Yeah, and when I first started to experience that I didn't want to be touched at all. My partner at the time did not want them to touch me. I didn't want any kind of intimacy like that because my body was just like literally just in pain from sitting on the couch, lying in bed. So I didn't want that touch from them.
Margeaux Feldman:And then, as I started to kind of come to like accept that I was going to live in this realm of chronic illness, I started to think about the ways in which a sick body is denied touch and there's like so many ways we can define like the sick body which I can't get into me, think a lot more about like the trauma of touch, but the heal and the healing of touch, and who gets to receive touch and who is denied that and why. So yeah, I mean, I could go on and on. So I'm going to like pause there, there's a lot.
Aliya Cheyanne:No, there's so much, you said so much and several things have stood out to me so much. So, even you bringing up how we're introduced to touch and consent from a young age, or lack of consent, like even with kids, because that's prevalent in a lot of communities, like telling the kid to go hung whoever at Thanksgiving or Christmas or when you first meet them and it made me think about there's a podcast host that I like. Her name is Samaya Burton, and her show was formerly called Not Just Another Sex Podcast. Now it's called the Bankrupt Millionaire. But she talks about her own experiences of growing up with family and dealing with very unhealthy dynamics within her family when it comes to consent and sexual assault and touch and all of that. And she did an episode with someone else who I really admire and respect, lavon Briggs, who I've had on the show before too, and they did an episode together. They're both also survivors of sexual assault and they also talk about like stop telling these kids to just hug everybody. Like you're not teaching kids how to have autonomy over their own body. You're teaching them that everybody's just supposed to get a hug, you're just supposed to do whatever the adult says, like that's a natural like, no, like. Allow kids to be like. No, I don't want to hug that person, I don't know them, I'm not comfortable, and I think you bringing that up is really important. Like that's something that people need to be more mindful of. Like kids are whole beings with their own little intuition and discernment too. And like they have every right to practice consent in their own format, even at a young age, even as simple as a hug. So even thinking about that is really interesting.
Aliya Cheyanne:You bringing up the example of pets like it's so true, but I almost kind of wanted to laugh because I have a dog. I adopted her at eight weeks. She just turned five a couple of weeks ago and like she likes to snuggle on her own terms. Yes, like when she's ready to snuggle, I'm supposed to just be like okay, but when I want snuggles, it's like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I didn't say I was ready yet. And like sometimes, when I want to give her snuggles, or like little smooches, she'll be like I'll be following her trying to give her a smooch and her whole head will be like girl, if you don't no-transcript, because I know how painful and extreme it can be and hell yeah, I wouldn't want to be touched if I'm having like a flare-up and I'm in in pain. So I totally get that. But even you doing the work around that to figure out what does touch look like for me, even dealing with this like how does this impact my relationships, is really powerful too. So a lot of what you're sharing just really resonated with me in that context. So thank you for sharing that me in that context. So thank you for sharing that.
Aliya Cheyanne:Yeah, something I also want to talk about is when we're talking about touch, we're also talking about how trauma lives in our bodies. You know you even mentioned, on the episode we've done before, the book the Body Keeps the Score. Some other folks like you know there are other books around that topic too, but that's a popular one too that people have read. So I would love to talk a little bit more about the relationship between trauma and chronic illness, because I know something that we're learning about now in this era especially for my community, black women in particular is that a lot of untreated stresses and traumas are leading to autoimmune diseases for us, and there's a correlation there and that's true for a lot of people. So I would love to talk more about how that relationship works and how it manifests, and especially for people who are leaning into more ways to try to remedy that and figure it out and like understand the connection.
Margeaux Feldman:I would love to hear some of your thoughts on the relationship between the two ah, okay, yeah, I mean, this is kind of what the whole book is about, so I'm gonna give you know a little little kind of cliff's notes version.
Aliya Cheyanne:Yeah, enough to make what folks want to read it not. Don't give the whole thing away, just a little taste so they know they need to go get the book. Like I mean, you're asking me about all my favorite topics of just that.
Margeaux Feldman:Well, this could be like the whole episode, but yeah, I think like for me what's so interesting is that it's only like kind of recent, like historically, like 17th century, that we started to see the mind and body as separate. So it's kind of called this like mind-body dualism, as though these two entities are somehow totally disconnected from one another, operating separately and like very distinguishably from one another and like already in my brain, I'm just kind of like well, but how Like the mind is our brain and our brain lives in our body.
Aliya Cheyanne:And.
Margeaux Feldman:I think about like, one way of understanding this. If you think about, like when you're sick 99% of the time when I'm sick, I am an emotional baby. 99% of the time when I'm sick, I am an emotional baby Mm-hmm, I feel depressed and sad and like, and generally my disposition is pretty happy, mm-hmm. So the state of like we get an injury and we're in pain, yeah, like we are not going to be all smiles in that situation. So the pain that we're experiencing in our body impacts our mind, it impacts our mood, it impacts our ability to like, think, clearly, communicate, do all sorts of things that we use our brilliant minds for right. And so then, why wouldn't it be the case that the opposite is true, that what is happening in the mind impacts our bodies? And there's so much incredibly brilliant, nerdy neuroscience about this. But you know, I'll kind of offer a couple of different examples that I think can like flesh this out. And so, if we're thinking about like trauma, specifically, one of like the symptoms of trauma is disordered sleep, because you know you're having nightmares. Um, because your brain is quite literally on the lookout for danger, and so you know you might be someone like me who's gone your whole life thinking it was totally normal to wake up like multiple times during the night, and I always thought it was because I just like had a small bladder and had to pee. This was the logic that I came up with in my brain, yeah, and it wasn't until I started going to my doctor to figure out why I was like so chronically sick. And she was like, well, how's your sleep? And I was like, oh, it's like pretty much the same. I wake up like three to four times during the night to go pee, wow. And she was just like Margo, that's not a thing. And I was like what she's like mm-mm, like that's like your. What we kind of figured out was like, oh, this was actually what I affectionately call my trauma brain, or we can think about as our sympathetic nervous system like waking me up to basically check, like are we safe? Wow. And so she sent me off for a sleep study so that we could like just really get a full assessment.
Margeaux Feldman:And I woke up like 37 times and a lot of that is unconscious, like you don't even you don't come to consciousness in that like way, but it's like there's so much that our body does to regenerate while we're sleeping, yeah, and if we are constantly waking up, we are interrupting so many different processes that our body needs to rest, restore, regenerate, yeah, and so, for me, what that essentially has resulted in is this kind of domino effect, where my muscles are tensing consistently, which is like resulting in like the chronic pain that I have, wow. There's a million other examples that we can think of here that really show that like mind-body connection, you know, with trauma. Also, we're like often like very hypervigilant and we hold our bodies really tensely, to the point where you know it's like I'll go and get a massage, and massage therapist will be like just relax, yeah. Like well, I am relaxed, no, no, like really relax and like, if you just like even like clench your fist as like an exercise and hold your fist clenched for a couple minutes, your hands are going to be sore after. So there's all of these very microscopic ways that we are holding our body in positions of tension constantly because to be relaxed isn't safe and like. So it's like, of course, I have intense pain in my shoulders and back because I've spent my whole life on alert looking out for danger, and so this idea that trauma is something that lives only in the mind and we need to go to talk therapy and that's how we're going to figure it out.
Margeaux Feldman:Famous people working in this field were starting to study hysteria, this somatic understanding that our body is all connected and the mind is connected. I mean, indigenous communities have understood that forever. Communities with different healers, shamans and really cultures that historically are not white, have understood for a long time this mind-body connection and it's only really kind of since around like the 1980s that the world of mental health has been like catching back up and being like wait, wait, actually like trauma lives in the body, lives in the mind as well, but it's also in the body and we can do so much healing without actually ever talking about the story of the traumatic event. Yeah, we can heal by just looking at what is happening in our bodies, and so when I'm feeling anxious, my therapist will be like what does that feel like in your body? Yeah, and for me it might look like, oh, my shoulders are caving inwards and forwards, I'm making myself small and as soon as I recognize that, what happens? I expand? Yeah, my shoulders open Suddenly, I'm taking deeper breaths.
Margeaux Feldman:Suddenly, I'm feeling calmer. What? Who knew? Who knew, I mean, and it's like I laugh because, like, it really should not be rocket science, yeah, but this is so many of us are unlearning the conditioning of the world that we live in that has really worked to separate these two, yeah, so yeah, there's a million other examples of this, but those are just a couple to really just kind of like help us think about, like how these two are connected. And so healing can't just address the mind, it has to address the body, because trauma lives there too.
Aliya Cheyanne:Just address the mind, it has to address the body, because trauma lives there too. Yes, oh, my goodness, margo, waking up 37 times in the night yeah, dude, oh yeah, I thought you were going to say like a much smaller number. I'm like, do I need to sleep? Because a bad night for me is getting up like three or four times to use the bathroom.
Margeaux Feldman:37 to wake up, that a lot, yeah oh, my god, you know, and of course you do like take things into consideration, like you had to do the sleep study, like, yeah, sleep institute, you take all these things into consideration, but what it really shows me is like, oh, like my body is like afraid, yeah, and there's so many moments I don't realize. And then I have people in my life that I just like watch, like sleep through the night and like this, like joke with, like my, my sweetheart, right now. We're like I look at them when they sleep and they look like a literal angel, like constant, and they sleep like through the night, no problems, like they're very, very regulated and and they told me that they're like sometimes, margo, I wake up and I see your face and you're just scowling and they're like, and they're like, now that I know what's going on for you in your sleep, like that makes so much sense. There's like a lot that's happening internally, like I'm I'm not really resting.
Aliya Cheyanne:There's like a lot that's happening internally, like I'm not really resting, and so, yeah, I'm just like whoo, show me what this like blessed full night of sleep looks like I want to know, and feels like, and to wake up from that. I've heard before that I mean it's not a cure all for everything, but a good night's rest really does so much for the body because, like you said and as we know, our bodies are recovering, they're repairing, they're healing through the night and if they're not having the opportunity to do that because the trauma, the fear, the hypervigilance, all of those things are pushing through during our rest cycle, it's hard for the body to repair and heal itself. So that's really that's interesting. And even you talking about how tense our bodies are, when you were talking, I literally did a body check on myself, like okay, my jaw feels a little tight, like should I drop my? And like even the massage example, because I just had one recently I was like I was tense in areas I was not expecting, like it surprised me when they were like working through certain spots and I'm just like, well, it makes sense, because if I'm at my desk for a long period of time and I'm like crouched like this, that makes sense.
Aliya Cheyanne:And I had gone to a yoga event recently and we were just in Shavasana, like just laying flat, and I thought I I thought I was laying flat. The facilitator came around and was adjusting everyone. I was like, oh, she's not going to adjust me, like I'm good. Next thing I know, I felt my legs being lifted up and pulled down. I was like I know you're lying, like I'm, I'm not laying flat, my body is still tense. And she came and like pushed my shoulders down and like I was just, like I wasn't laying down, like relaxed. It's so crazy to me, like we just don't notice how tense we are sometimes and like what's even driving it. Notice how tense we are sometimes and like what's even driving it. So even just checking in in a moment, like while you were talking, to say hey, let me relax my jaw a little, let me put my shoulders down, let me breathe a little bit more deeply instead of so shallowly, like it's so wild.
Margeaux Feldman:It's so wild, I know, I know it's truly.
Margeaux Feldman:I had to take like a whole eight week long class on like learning to breathe deeply, because when someone was like take a deep breath and they're like counting, I'm like like it was literally painful.
Margeaux Feldman:It like felt like my lungs were going to explode, and that's because all I've ever understood is shallow breathing, again because of trauma, breathing again because of trauma, and like we deep breathe when we're relaxed and at ease and comfortable, but like if your life is very distressing, you know, and there's all sorts of different things that like make you know the world that we live in like an ongoing, like daily trauma.
Margeaux Feldman:Like you know, we have to like learn later in life how to do some of these like very basic things, like learning how to take a deep breath, yeah, and and then like noticing the difference there and how that feels, and so, yeah, I'd be curious, you know, for everyone who's like listening as we're having this conversation, doing like that little body check in and just being like whoa, wait, actually like like sometimes it's like I'll have these moments in therapy where my like therapist will like catch me like she'll be like so, marco, you've just been like gripping your hands. Yes, yeah, full time. Are you aware of that? And I'm like, huh, let them go. And I'm like, oh, that feels better, yeah, yeah, it's sobering, to say the least it is 1000%, 1000%.
Aliya Cheyanne:Like even even thinking about that when you're talking about the mind-body connection, like how silly it is for us to think that there's not a connection, like so many cultures, indigenous cultures and beyond, have known this, just like you said. But I think that's also just a result of the society we live in. Like capitalism benefits from there being a sever between the mind body connection. We live in a like a white dominant society. That also benefits. It goes hand in hand with capitalism too. The more we can travel back in time a little bit and just remember the medicine that already exists, the better we will all be. I think that's really powerful. Okay, I could, we could go on. Now I'm like let's keep going because there's so much more to talk about. You have already talked about sort of the era of hysteria, when women were being labeled as hysterics, put in asylums, being lumbotomized. Is that the word Undergoing lumbotomy? Like all these different things, and you've talked about that in your work. I know it's present in your book as well and I'm just really interested in talking about that a little bit more. I'm not an expert in that area, so I'm so glad to be talking to you and I don't know how much folks listening are as well, but it's very interesting to be in a place in life where we have platforms like TikTok and I don't know why I keep getting fed this kind of content. But every now and then I'll get the type of videos where it shows people before and after undergoing these labels or these procedures and you'll see the light leave people's eyes because of medication or different things and how terrible life became in the aftermath of that.
Aliya Cheyanne:We live in a society in the present day where people are quick to be labeled crazy for whatever they're experiencing, whether it be mental health issue or mental illness, whether it be chronic pain, especially people who identify as feminine or women or non-binary like, whatever the case may be like. We're so quick to be labeled all of these things and in a society and in a world like that, it's kind of the other version of becoming an untouchable, like we care about that phrase of the untouchables, like people who had leprosy in the Bible or all these other kinds of things. It's a new way of becoming the untouchables and in this era where you're saying, touch me, I'm sick, and combating that narrative of being untouchable, I'm very curious about talking about that a little bit more. The people who are kind of deemed as too much, or crazy, or hysteric. What touch looks like for them? Um, what intimacy looks like for them?
Margeaux Feldman:so I would just love to hear some of your thoughts around that yeah, I mean my first like response is like oh, it can looked like really embracing the idea of like touch. That's platonic, like holding hands with my friends.
Margeaux Feldman:Yeah hands with my friends, yeah, and like cuddling with my friends and doing the things that we've like like been told, like, oh, you just do that with like a romantic partner or person, like, yeah, you can have just like such sweet touch, and like I think like a lot of people would be doing so much better if they could open themselves up to you know, touch that can come from. Yeah, like friends you know, as opposed to to partners.
Margeaux Feldman:And you know like there's so many ways to combat, like. You know, these like stories that we've been told of like who deserves touch, who doesn't. You know, within a queer context as well. It's like you know, these like stories that we've been told of like who deserves touch who doesn't. You know, within a queer context as well. It's like you know we have the history of, like the AIDS epidemic and you know very much like bodies that were deemed like untouchable. Yeah, the sick body continues to be thought of as untouchable. I mean, Audre Lorde writes about that in her cancer journals feeling like people are too afraid to touch her body because she's sick. You know, and like really feeling this, like, yeah, this sadness and loneliness, even though there's like people in her life, but like the loneliness we can experience without having touch around us. So I think like we can you know, I'm just like here to be like how do we just like get creative and break the molds and do whatever it is we want, and how do we have conversations with people in our lives around how we can like integrate more touch just into our dynamics, like massaging each other? There's like this really cute picture that like people are starting to like turn into memes on the internet of like two of the actors from like the show stranger things like two of like the young boys and they're like walking down the street with like one of the actors girlfriend is there, but it's the two boys that are holding hands and she's like she's having a great time, you know, and they're just having this like moment of like intimacy with each other. To me, that's so beautiful and that shouldn't be like a profound thing, right? Yeah, but somehow it is and I also want to like honor that like.
Margeaux Feldman:For some people, maybe touch isn't part of the equation. I think we're having a lot more conversations that are coming from folks who identify as being like asexual, where it's like they're not interested in like sexual touch in their bond or what that looks like, looks different to them and gets negotiated differently, yeah, and may not exist at all in that bond, but that doesn't mean that there isn't intimacy, yeah, so I don't know. My encouragement is really for folks to just like look within themselves and be like what kind of touch do you desire and which is like? I mean, it sounds like an easy question, such a hard question to answer and like how can you have the conversations you need to have to see if you can bring that into your life? And then I guess the other piece that I'll name is, like, my own ongoing struggle right now is actually around self-touch.
Aliya Cheyanne:Yeah.
Margeaux Feldman:And doing a lot of work in my current therapy around like just giving pleasurable touch to myself. Not even touch that's like sexual, like, literally, just like setting a timer for 10 minutes and just running my hands along my arms, along my head you know the shaved head. It's very like pleasurable to like rub a shaved head and like, but I struggle. I feel immense discomfort when it comes to having a relationship of touch with my own body and that comes from trauma, like absolutely and so, and that comes from like the ways in which we've been taught that like touch is something that comes from someone else, and so I think, another way of if it feels too scary, too dangerous to receive touch from others, how do you build that relationship of touch with yourself? And for me, it's like, literally, when my therapist was like like do this for like an hour, and like she saw the look on my face, she was like, okay, let's try doing this for 10 minutes together and I was like, okay, yeah, okay, great, great, yeah, 10 minutes, we can do 10 minutes. You know, because I think that, like you know, when we live in a world that has told people of all kinds of like marginalized experiences that like we are less worthy of touch. It is like a politically radical like thing to touch ourselves and to touch others and to like redefine what touch means for us.
Margeaux Feldman:And yeah, I don't know for me, I just get excited by like the possibilities and then I think, also remembering like, yeah, sometimes, like what you might want might be quote-unquote too much for someone else, but that doesn't actually mean that what you want is inherently bad a problem.
Margeaux Feldman:It's like with any scenario. It's like our needs, like someone else might not be able to offer that to us, and I think, historically, the way that we've been taught to respond to someone's needs that don't align with ours is to make them feel like they're too much, because then it's not about us, it's like about them, and I think about how much that's like deeply connected to something that's not even about like touch in, like the physical sense, but like emotional, like your emotions are too much, like I can't practice vulnerability with you either at all, or even a little bit, because it makes me too uncomfortable. Yeah, but that's like actually, as someone who I historically feel pretty comfortable talking about my feelings, oh, actually I'm like, has that always been true? Margo, I have a fraught relationship with talking about my feelings um same same same yeah, yeah, you know where.
Margeaux Feldman:Like it's all I really want to do is just talk about feelings, and I have been taught that that is like something that makes me too much, and so I've had to set for myself boundaries around. Like you know, if I want to have a deeper kind of intimacy with someone, I need to know that my feelings are never too much. Yeah, and what that looks like is just the other person being accountable for their own limitations. Yeah, and that's okay. That doesn't actually mean that we're necessarily incompatible. It means we got to collaborate and figure out how we can, like, find the middle path together.
Aliya Cheyanne:Yeah, yeah, I love that. It kind of leans into what you've spoken about in terms of, like, different modes of care, like queer modes of care and like how people can find other ways to be intimate, to experience some version of touch, even if it is not always something that's physical, like it's a form of intimacy that isn't always physical. When you were talking, it was reminding me of two different instances with friends recently where when we were having like a really vulnerable conversation and we were saying bye to each other and just the way we like leaned in and like gave each other a hug and like she kind of like rubbed my back a little bit lightly, like that was a platonic but intimate moment. As someone who is not partnered, who is single, who's like a little bit touch deprived, like it felt really good to have my friend touch me in that platonic way, like, especially after that vulnerable conversation. But I'm not always up for that.
Aliya Cheyanne:Like I have like my longest best friend if she ever hears me she might like laugh or get mad at this, but like it's like uninvited touch, sometimes Like we'll just be doing, hanging out, talking, whatever and she'll be like like rubbed, like playfully, and sometimes I'm like I don't want that, like don't don't do that. Like we have to like be on the same page in those moments. So even just like identifying those things and figuring out what works. And I love what you shared, too, about needing to know that the other person can witness you fully, with all of your emotions, but under also understanding their capacity and their limitations and collaborating on that, because I think that's really important too. Like I'm definitely also in a season where I have to like mentally prepare myself for certain conversations or I have to say, like I really don't have capacity for this today, or maybe I got to call you back in an hour. Maybe we have something like just checking in with myself, because, especially if you're listening and you're like me, you get overstimulated very easy.
Margeaux Feldman:Like it's not always um easy to just be fully present in that way, and I find myself having to make sure I'm in a state where I'm more mindful and I can be fully present so that I can show up in a way that doesn't make the other person feel any kind of way yeah, I mean, and I think that that's like to me, that like another, like just brilliant and beautiful part of like practicing consent in different ways, where, like my besties and I like we have like a little group chat between the three of us and like we will ask for consent, we'll be like hey, hey, does anyone have like space to?
Margeaux Feldman:like talk to me right now about x, y or z thing, yeah, and and then, like we're all to check in with ourselves and be like, okay, what is my like emotional bandwidth, like what? What? Like in my day do I have time, you know? And I think that another friend of mine has like said to me like that they they really just want to set to have me help them, set the conditions for them to show up. Well, yeah, I think it's so beautiful, right, because it's like, it's really just like like we all I mean I want to be there, be present, be attuned, be able to hear and respond, and like love on the person who's like sharing something vulnerable with me.
Margeaux Feldman:And if I try to show up in a moment where I'm distracted or I'm like stressed because I have this work deadline at the end of the day, or I'm really tired because I didn't sleep well the night before and I'm cranky, like I'm actually showing up and setting conditions that are going to lead to conflict. And so I think there's this beautiful piece around like how do we all check in with ourselves and take responsibility for how we want to show up for each other, and you know, and then like share and like, own our own limitations, because sometimes, like, the gap between the desire and the capacity is big and it's just like, okay, well, like, and it's not always like gonna be that way, but in a particular moment it might be. Yeah, and that doesn't mean that we still can't have that intimacy, you know, or have that conversation. It just means that, like, we're both going to be more thoughtful in planning that so that it can go as well as possible.
Aliya Cheyanne:Yeah, 1000%. I feel like we're also just in this era too, where there is a lot of therapy speak being thrown around. If I'm being very honest, like I've someone who's been in talk therapy on and off for like a very long time- for years and we are in a place where there is a lot of therapy speak being thrown around.
Aliya Cheyanne:People are setting and upholding real boundaries. Some people just like the word there's a lot going on. But there's also this narrative of like okay, well, we're becoming a little bit too individualistic and disconnected because everything cannot just be like we can't even have a conversation anymore as friends, like everything got to be therapy, like. There's that narrative too, but I do think there is a balance. I have 1000% had to tell a friend or a family member like I don't know if this is one for me, you might need to talk to a professional about this one. And then there are moments where we can sit and talk about deep, hard things. As long as both of us are in the space to do that for each other, I think there is a balance.
Aliya Cheyanne:I don't think it has to be one only or the other, but it's interesting navigating this time, especially during an era where a lot of people do feel isolated or lonely. They don't feel connected to many friends. There are a lot of people in online spaces who are talking about how much they just don't actually have friends in real life. So showing up online helps them a lot. Like there's just a lot happening, and I think the more we can kind of figure things out and build more intimacy together like, the more satisfied we'll all be. As you've said, too, something that comes to mind when you were talking to about like platonic friendship intimacy is like I I don't remember who these girls were.
Aliya Cheyanne:It was a couple years ago, but there was a video that went viral of two friends in a pool, like in a in their backyard or somebody's backyard, and one of them was standing and holding her friend up and the other friend was just like peacefully floating while her friend held her up and I've I've never forgotten the image of that, because I remember getting really emotional when I first saw it, because I was just like that's so beautiful, that's so so intimate, that's so just sweet and pure, like what a nice thing to be held by your friend, yeah, like floating in the pool, like no demand, no requirement, just quiet time together. Yeah, and you're having this very beautiful experience. Like little things like that, I think, are so powerful and I hope more people find their version of that and feel that you know, yes, 100%, ugh.
Margeaux Feldman:Now that visual is going to stay with me too.
Aliya Cheyanne:Yeah, it's a beautiful thing, so sweet. It was so sweet. I wish I could like find it again, but I've never forgotten it.
Margeaux Feldman:Yeah.
Aliya Cheyanne:And even just to circle back to something you shared earlier about self-touch, even in a non-sexual way. I hope you continue to explore that. I've attended two workshops recently where, at the end of like a dance workshop, we were invited to like hug ourselves and at first I felt a little corny and then I did it and I was like, oh, this is actually great, I needed this. I was invited to do another workshop where at the end of that, we had to like kiss our shoulders and I was like why am I going to kiss myself? Like kiss my own shoulder. Like why would I do that? At the end of it, it felt really great.
Aliya Cheyanne:I did another one where we had to like massage our own stomachs. I've never thought to massage my stomach before in my life, but I did it and I was like I have the power and the agency to do this for myself. So I hope that you continue to explore that in different ways what that looks like for you. Pleasure and comfortability. Okay, so we have talked about so much I feel like one thing, too that we I even just mentioned it just now with folks who are finding intimacy or connection and online spaces. You obviously have so much experience with that. I'm very curious to hear more of your thoughts on what I don't know just kind of navigating chronic illness and connection and what that looks like for you, how digital community has kind of supported you in that and like provided a mode of care for you in a way, and how you've seen that kind of play out for maybe others too.
Margeaux Feldman:Yeah, absolutely. I mean I'll preface this all by saying that I mean it's weird to be like I was lucky enough to like already have people in my life who were chronically ill when I became chronically ill which feels like a weird thing to be like I'm so lucky because obviously I'm so sorry that they have to live with chronic pain and like experience that yeah, I know that I did.
Margeaux Feldman:I was lucky enough to have a couple of humans in real life who I was able to like lean on, but it was still like a very isolating experience and for a lot of people, like they don't have anyone else around them who is living with chronic pain or at least like recognizes that they're living with like chronic pain or chronic illness in some way.
Margeaux Feldman:And and the reality is, when you are living with chronic illness and chronic pain and this also goes for like mental illness and some days like really barely even possible If you are lucky to have like friends in your community who will like come over and like make you dinner and hang out with you like that's, like you know you are so blessed and I have been so blessed in that way, mm-hmm.
Margeaux Feldman:But for a lot of people, again, that also isn't the case, and so you know, online community, whether that's through social media or through, you know, like discord or through like other spaces, actually enables connection in ways that I think the other people are so like, oh, like social media, like it's not real and like it creates more isolation. And there are lots of ways in which yes, like it does. There's these expectations of having to perform, you know, especially like perform like wellness, perform like fully healedness, perform okayness, and that can like be really exhausting and really isolating when that's not actually what's going on for you and that's like your experience. And so for me, being like very radically honest about you know, my bad days allowed other people to also be like, oh, I'm having a bad day too, Like now I feel less alone in my bad day and I think like I never take those moments where someone has like shared that with me lightly.
Margeaux Feldman:Like to me, I'm like I know that that it is a big deal to feel seen and not alone in this world, even if it's literally because of a meme that I made or because at one point in time, when I was still, like you know, posting pictures of myself on, like my social media, I posted a selfie I took in the bathtub and then literally other people were like I'm also in the bath right now because of my chronic pain, and like it became this whole conversation in the comments and like we got to like have this moment of intimacy and it's like intimacy with total strangers, which I think is like one of the most underrated and coolest forms of intimacy and to me, is like so queer and so radical because we've been taught that like we can only have real deep intimacy with people that we know like in real life or that we've known for a long time, and I've like had just so many beautiful moments of intimacy with strangers. And you know, I just wrapped up this eight week long peer support group that I run that's called Intimacy for Trauma Babies, which is like short for babies, which is like my term of endearment. It's a group of like 20 people who are strangers to each other and every week we meet and we talk about readings and we do reflection questions and people share vulnerably and we're talking about our struggles with intimacy and people are practicing like their skills with one another and that's with strangers and in a way that can actually be easier than like practicing it with people that we know. That can actually be easier than like practicing it with people that we know, because we might, number one, not even have access to other people in our life that feel safe enough for us to do that work with. So that you know it's a whole other like set of issues.
Margeaux Feldman:Have people, yeah, around us, but those are not the humans that are going to show up and like want to do this hard work with us and as we start to orient ourselves towards connections with people who are more aligned in those ways, we're so under practice in the skills that we want to bring to intimacy. So, yeah, I have a whole chapter in the book that's like about social media and like Instagram in particular, and like building intimacy through connecting with strangers online and like. I do think that that gets left out of the conversation a lot, and I think that folks who are disabled and chronically ill and like struggling with trauma and other mental health stuff have found people that they can connect to through someone's TikTok or through someone's meme or through whatever. I think that's like a really cool thing.
Aliya Cheyanne:I think so too, and you shared so much. That's so powerful. And I heard before and I heard once that the best way to actually use social media is to share a little bit of yourself, to call others in who are aligned, who are connected all of those things. It just gets used for a lot of other mess, good or bad. But I think that's really powerful too. Kind of related, but also not 100% related when I think about people who are thinking about intimacy, not just in friendship, but even if it's romantic intimacy. There's a whole community growing.
Aliya Cheyanne:I never actually watched Love Island. I have just watched clips on TikTok. Yes, uh-huh, but because of that I've been swept up in a particular couple, the Nicolandria couple. But it's so interesting to see online the way that people are exploring like what a healthy connection looks like, to actually have a supportive partner that uplifts your dreams and like re-evaluating relationships they've had, what love looks like for them, what intimacy looks like for them, what protection and advocacy like all those things kind of look like for them. And there's a whole community of strangers online who are obsessed with this dynamic and the situation and people are finding their people that way. They're talking about love and intimacy and relationship more. They're talking about what it looks like to be a good friend or not a good friend. They're reevaluating how they've shown up. They're reevaluating how their partners have shown up. So I just think it's so interesting to see things like that kind of play out.
Aliya Cheyanne:You mentioned, too, about just the way that folks might be isolating for various reasons, like maybe they feel too much or too sick to be around others, or maybe others are treating them that way, so they choose isolation as a trauma response, as a way of safety and protection. And social media for many people has allowed them to kind of start creeping out of that, to blossom in their own time in their own way and meet new people. So I think that's really powerful too. And I think about it too in terms of other things, like it doesn't always have to be maybe neurodivergence or mental health or chronic illness. Like I know, for some people it's just confronting parts of themselves that don't feel great about. I say some people parts of themselves that don't feel great about. I say some people.
Aliya Cheyanne:I'm also talking about me, like some people call it shadow work and confronting the shadow, whatever it is, I have been doing a lot of work around accessing the parts of myself that I feel like are cringe and not great, and in doing that, sometimes it's made me want to isolate and be like well, maybe I just don't need to be around people, maybe I just need to be by myself on my own and figure some stuff out. But through my friendships I've been able to like, combat that and be like no, I am worthy of intimacy and touch and care too, even if there are some parts of me that I'm working through that I don't deem as the best or great or that I think are kind of ugly and untouchable. You know, I think there's so much that folds into that that's really powerful. And even on the note of like people who feel like they have to perform healing or perform wellness in this era online, because most people want to show the highlights and the positives. We don't like to show the hard stuff.
Aliya Cheyanne:Yeah, all the time that stuff is rough and tough and then, when people do, they get criticized and ostracized for it. We see so many my algorithm on tiktok. All the time I see moms and wives talking about how friggin hard it is, and then you have people in the comments being like well, your mom suck it up. Like you know, it's just like. I don't mean to laugh at that, but it's just like when people do want to express themselves because they have nowhere else to turn. Like it's you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't.
Margeaux Feldman:So I just feel, like you know, being real, being authentic, like showing up in the way that feels comfortable to you, but challenging yourself to like connect in new ways or different ways, might just be a form of care that could work in this season in this season Fun, and I mean like I've also been very much in my like embracing my cringe era Because, yeah, there's just like stuff, especially as they do like a lot of work with like inner teen, margo, who was real cringy, as our teenage selves are, and like, but I think in those moments, you know, and it's so interesting because like yeah, I've never really had people respond negatively to me sharing like my struggles, which is an incredible gift, especially as, like my following grew and grew and in fact it's just like the opposite of like people just being like so grateful to like know that someone like me, who they can look at and think like Margo is like got it together, like look at them, they've done all this healing. It's like actually like I'm still a mess, I'm like still figuring it out. I just like wrote an essay for my sub stack that was called like I'm so happy dot dot dot and I want to blow everything up because it's like there's so much that I'm like dealing with consistently, you know, inwardly struggling with. But when I hear those kinds of like negative responses, what I get curious about then is like oh oh, wow, seeing that person's cringe made you feel a way about your own cringe and like you can't let yourself have feelings, so you need to tell this other person to suck it up, because that's actually what you're actually doing is. You're actually talking to yourself pretty much, and so I hope, whoever that person is out there who is getting those comments, I hope that they know that it's not actually a dumb problem.
Margeaux Feldman:You know, and unfortunately, when we do make ourselves vulnerable online, like we do open ourselves up to all kinds of projections from others, yeah, but if we can start to really see, like, oh, like I've kind of like been thinking a lot about how Ecocentric it is and I say that in a nonjudgmental way that, like I make everything about me, this must be because I'm a problem. It must be because, like I did or said something must be, you know, like I make myself the problem because if I'm the problem, I can fix me. Yeah, I'm the problem, I can fix me.
Margeaux Feldman:Yeah, but 99% of the time, it's actually, whatever is going on for that other person Like they didn't get enough sleep the night before they feel a way about themselves Like actually it has nothing to do with me.
Margeaux Feldman:So I need to just be here on my own journey of being like okay, like, okay, like like I, recently speaking of too much, watched the show too much, which is Lena Dunham's new show um, and it's really great and like made me so cringy like the whole time because, like the kind of like main characters of the show are like women who are like very flawed, very cr cringy, and I was like the whole time I was watching, I was like feeling resistance in me and I was like, oh, this must be touching upon something in me that I see, that I recognize that I don't want to own, that I don't want to love, and in not loving those parts of me, I'm actually contributing to my own suffering.
Margeaux Feldman:Yeah, and what is it? So? Yeah, that's why I'm just like okay, if we all have parts of ourselves that feel cringy, how can we actually like embrace those parts of us? Because actually, those like cringy, messy parts of us whatever language we want to use are actually just like the most beautiful and like really just need love. And once we give them that love, they stop screaming so loudly. What a wild thing what a wild thing.
Aliya Cheyanne:Integrating the shadow. Yes, yeah, it's so true. It's so interesting how shows and film can like help us to see that and recognize that too. And also, like I saw something the other day that says it was like what is something along the lines of what is it a habit or a thing that people do that some folks would deem is like rude, but it's actually healthy? And someone responded to it and they were like confrontation, like people think burying their emotions and feelings and processing everything alone and internally is emotionally mature. And actually it's not.
Aliya Cheyanne:Like confrontation is healthy, like talking about your, your thing, what's going on with you, is healthier. And I kind of got the ick when I saw that, because I was like I was on the heels of a big family blow up thing and I was just like, oh, am I emotionally immature? Because I buried all of my emotions, my feelings in this situation instead of just having a confrontation. So it's just so interesting how we see things sometimes and it like it calls out whatever might be going on and like forces us to reckon with it and acknowledge it and ultimately accept it for the most part, for most things, and move forward with it, you know. So that's interesting.
Margeaux Feldman:I mean, culture is a mirror for us, right, like I love I watch all the reality dating shows, love Island, I can't do because there's just too many episodes. Yeah, it's overwhelming. I cannot commit to that many episodes Like, yeah, whether it's like a meme, tweet or, yeah, a movie, or for me, so much like mirroring has come through literature and like books that I've read and I'm like a literature student, I'm a writer and so, like we are getting all these opportunities all the time to have things reflected to us and it's like this beautiful gift actually that we have as humans to be like. What do I want to do when something is being reflected to me? Yeah, is being reflected to me? Yeah, and I'm in this like interesting other part of my journey that's like similar to yours, but on the other end, where I'm actually learning that, like not every feeling and thought that I have needs to be processed with someone else, yeah, you know, and that there's a lot of work I can do internally either just like and then never like, maybe I never need to bring that to someone else, or maybe I bring it after I've done the work to like, actually process it, um, and learning to have that discernment because, like the part of me that wants to say everything, that's not my adult self, that's like the younger part of me that was told to be silent all the time, that was told to like not stir the pot, to not have confrontation, to like just keep everything bottled up.
Margeaux Feldman:And so, with trauma, it's like we swing from like one end of the pendulum to the other. So it's like, well, I never spoke up and said I was feeling. So now it's like everything that I feel I need to like speak, yeah, and how, like that's a lot, I think a lot, I have a lot of feelings. So I'm actually building and like, and I feel resistance, or someone in my life who's really helping me with this lesson. And every time they say to me, like you know, margo, like you could have just like process that first before like bringing that to me, and I feel angry and I feel resistance and I'm just like but I'm feeling that actually, because they're not wrong like and there's like a lesson in there for me. So, yeah, whenever, whenever I'm teaching, whenever I'm like having just like a conversation with someone, and they're like really resistant to something, I'm like, hmm, like I know, for me that's like time to explore.
Aliya Cheyanne:Yeah, 1000%. Oh man, thank you for sharing that, margo, and it's so true. I know on either end of the scale, I know that folks might feel seen in, that Folks might be able to resonate with what you're sharing, and also the other end, what I shared. So it's all about finding the balance and learning new modes to relate and recognizing what's coming up and when, because, like you said, it could be inner teenager, it could be child stuff. You know that's always what it goes back to, that kind of conditioning conditioning. So it's just like how do we allow our adult selves to take control while also allowing our young, the younger versions of us, to still feel seen and heard in the way that they might not have been during their time?
Margeaux Feldman:oh, you just summarized the whole journey of healing baby. That's it, that's it, that's it. No big deal, no big deal.
Aliya Cheyanne:But on that topic of healing, I want to circle back to Touch Me. I'm Sick because I know writing and as a writer, writing brings up so much when you're telling your story, when you're writing through experiences and processing those emotions all over again with an adult lens now like it can bring up so much. So I'm very curious about how writing Touch Me I'm Sick kind of allowed you to retell or better understand your story and also how it might have impacted you or changed how you even view your own story and narrative.
Margeaux Feldman:Yeah, well, so this question is like sort of the whole project of like my thesis for my MFA, which basically is about realizing the ways in which I used academic writing and research to actually better understand myself. But I didn't consciously know that that's what I was doing at the time. And so, for example, like yeah, with my dissertation, like Touch Me, I'm Sick began as my PhD dissertation, so that's like that. So we're going back in time to like 2014 here, and it started off as just like I'm just interested in how the desires of like girls and women and femmes or whoever have been like pathologized. And I had this moment where I we have our qualifying exams in our third year, where, basically, you have to like read all of these books in like your field of study and then like write some essays and do like an oral exam. And as I was writing the essays, what I realized was every single book that I had planned to write about at that point in time centered around a girl with a dead or missing mother, and my mom died when I was 11. Yeah, and that I was just like what? And then I started to realize, like I've always thought, that I was just like drawn to trauma studies as a field because, like, I started as a psychology major in university and I'm just interested in the human mind, no, no, it's that I was like actually trying to understand myself, yes, but I wasn't ready for therapy at that point, I wasn't ready to do that work for myself personally. So I did it intellectually and I'm a very cerebral person, so that's not surprising to anyone who actually knows me. But somehow it was a shock to me to realize like, oh, I'm drawn towards writing about and thinking about certain texts because they reflect something back to me about myself. So you know, as I was working on the dissertation and writing it, you know I mean this was like an academic, like I didn't exist in this, like narrative, because that's not seen as like academic writing. It used to be very objective, not subjective.
Margeaux Feldman:And then I got sick and then I realized that this connection between trauma and chronic illness, the dissertation shifted and I had to start writing about myself because there was just no way for me to not do that. But even still, by the time I submitted it there was very little of me actually in the book. It was very academic. And then I spent, I took some time away from it because I needed some space. And then when I came back to it, I was like, all right, I need to like strip this of a lot of the academic stuff and I want more of me to be in there, because everything that I'm writing about is me. It's like, of course it is you know.
Margeaux Feldman:So, yeah, the book has this like really kind of funny history and like one of my best friends is reading it right now before it comes out and and they know my writing from like my MFA and from my contemporary like moment that I'm in, where it's like, yeah, like this book, I mean, I defended my dissertation in 2021. And now the book is coming out in 2025. So I could do like a sense of like time has passed. Of course, my writing has changed. I'm not in an academic like program like that anymore, but I think, yeah, like you know to come back to your question it's like I don't know if I could have written about myself without the academic and kind of like more like intellectual research based elements of that are.
Margeaux Feldman:A lot of them are still in the book, because I am also an educator and I nerd out about learning. So you know, I like I want people to learn things about like trauma and hysteria and intimacy and care and all of these things, and then like adding myself into it. I mean that part actually felt really easy and I think writing about our own lived experience for me personally has been so healing. Part of the process of healing from trauma is actually sharing your story with an empathetic listener, and for me I've just chosen to do that with like hundreds of thousands of people on the internet, and now it's like going to be even more potentially potential people in the world which feels you know. That's not to say that there isn't like terror and fear there about being like hi everyone, you are going to read all about my messiness.
Aliya Cheyanne:You're about to be really seen.
Margeaux Feldman:Yes, and there's even a chapter in the book that, like, I think I'm going to like approach my publisher about like rewriting it for the paperback edition, because there's stuff that's shifted for me and I'm like I don't know if I love this chapter anymore. Like it represents me in a particular moment in my own thinking and understanding of myself, and so the idea that like people are gonna like read this chapter, that to me feels a little bit messier than I would like it to be. It's also scary, but I'm just trying to lean into the messiness and that we get to be humans who are growing and evolving and changing. And overall, I know that reading books that reflected my experience to me was transformational and if my writing can have an impact on even just like one person, like that feels so worth it. So I think also like knowing that when we write about our healing, it can be healing for others, like that's what really allows me to like push through all of like the fear.
Margeaux Feldman:Yeah, I mean not gonna read book reviews. I'm not gonna read the comments, you know gonna do stuff to protect myself, you know as much as I can because, of course, like I am sensitive creature that still wants everyone to like me and but overall I just feel like blessed that I got to write a book and that book is going to exist in the world allow others to do the same, just by our very existence and our very journey.
Aliya Cheyanne:So it's so interesting to hear I know the last time we spoke, you had shared about how and why you started your blog as an ode to your mom and fashion and how it evolved into softcore drama, like the page and everything else. So it's so interesting to hear the backstory of your book and how you consciously or unconsciously gravitated toward authors with a similar experience, and how you've had to put and allowing yourself to be seen, because in doing this honest work, you're allowing someone else to heal, to also feel seen, to explore and to meet some part of themselves more deeply. So I think that's really beautiful. So kudos to you thank you.
Margeaux Feldman:Thank you for those reflections.
Aliya Cheyanne:I know, margo, we have talked about so so much and I know we're. At time I was so excited for our conversation. I recently wrote some musings around touch. As someone, like I said, who is single and like, who does feel a little touch deprived and is looking for more platonic intimacy with my friends and I was so excited for our conversation and to talk more about Touch Me. I'm Sick. This conversation was really healing for me and really beautiful. Thank you for sharing so much and showing up so marvelously and brilliantly today. I've loved our conversation. Can you let folks know where to get Touch Me? I'm Sick when it comes out. Where to support your work, where to learn more, all of the things.
Margeaux Feldman:Yes, well, first, just like thank you for having me back for another conversation. I just feel like so energized and my brain is like so like invigorated by like the questions that you brought to the table, and I'm just so grateful to like get to talk about these things. It's all my special interests, cool.
Margeaux Feldman:Let's just stop, but you can touch me, I'm sick. Anywhere the books are sold. Yes, my favorite thing is to pre-order from your local bookstore Because it tells the bookstore, like, in case they haven't heard of the book, maybe they want to have it in their bookstore. Plus, they just love an indie bookstore. But if that is not accessible, either just because of your location or because of cost, you can also find it on like amazon, barnes and noble, like all of like the, the big guys. It comes out on sept, september 9th, and pre-orders really like do make a difference. So even if you're like that's not out yet, maybe I'll just wait, you know, if it doesn't matter, maybe just put that pre-order in.
Aliya Cheyanne:Yeah.
Margeaux Feldman:And yeah, if you follow me, you will hear some stuff soon about my book tour and where I'm going to be and where we can connect. And then, yeah, otherwise, you can find me mostly these days on my sub stack, which is called CareScapes, and I'm sure the link for that will be put into the show notes so you can find it. But I'm using that space to share my memes once a week and then also like longer form essays based on whatever it is I'm working through in my healing journey at the moment. And yeah, I mean technically, my Instagram still exists. So if you have not, if you're not familiar with soft core trauma, you can check that out and the archive exists there for you, and sometimes they periodically pop on there to like share some stuff.
Aliya Cheyanne:Yeah, amazing, and I will make sure all of those links are available in the show notes so that folks can access them easily and find them. Thank you again, margo, this was really great.
Margeaux Feldman:Yeah, thank you, Leah. I had such a great time.
