Dream, Rest, Play: Liberation for Black Women ft. Jennifer Roberts [REPLAY]

**This episode is a replay of Dream, Rest & Play ft. Colored Girls Liberation Lab Founder, Jennifer Roberts | Ep. 26 with an updated intro.**

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Visionary Jennifer Roberts -- whose story of evolution from educator to racial equity consultant to Founder of Colored Girls Liberation Lab embodies the resilience and power of dreaming big -- joins us as a guest on this episode of The Prolific Hub Podcast!

Hear how Jenn's identity as a Black woman, mother, artist, and dreamer has been shaped by the legacy of the strong women before her, and how it fuels her passion to build a community rooted in freedom and healing.

Watch this episode on YouTube!

To learn more about Jenn and Colored Girls Liberation Lab, visit:
Instagram: @coloredgirlslab
Website: coloredgirlslab.org
Become a Member: community.coloredgirlslab.org

Related Episodes:
- Wellness for Black Women ft. Aseanté Renee | Ep. 37
- A Free Woman's Journey to Love & Liberation: In Conversation with EbonyJanice Moore | Ep. 51

Theme Music:
She No Dull Beat by Nana Kwabena
Festivities in Belize by RAGE Productions

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Episode Overview
• 4:45 Meeting Jen Roberts: Background and Purpose
• 8:33 From Teaching to Racial Equity Work
• 15:51 Founding Colored Girls Liberation Lab
• 22:57 Entrepreneurship Challenges and Rewards
• 32:55 Creating Sacred Community Spaces
• 41:12 Rituals for Rest and Rejuvenation
• 47:41 Building a Legacy of Freedom
• 54:39 Final Reflections and Where to Connect

Transcript

Aliya Cheyanne: 1:21

Hey friend, welcome back to the show. I'm so glad to have you back and, as I mentioned, we are still very much on a brief hiatus, so we're doing a couple of replays before new episodes drop. This week I wanted to revisit our episode with Jennifer Roberts, who is the founder of Colored Girls Liberation Lab. About a year ago we had done an episode with Jen called Dream, rest Play and it's still such a deeply impactful episode for me. I reference it a lot in other episodes. Our conversation was important, it was rich, it was lovely. We talked about legacy and the importance of dreaming and resting and regulating our nervous systems and all of the important things to just be well. I thought it was especially important to revisit this episode, especially during this time that we're in, where more Black women could use some dreaming, some resting and some playing to navigate these times.

Aliya Cheyanne: 2:24

So with that, let's jump into this replay, and I hope you enjoy it. If you've heard it before, I hope it's nice to revisit, and if you haven't heard it before and you're hearing it for the first time, I hope you enjoy it just as much. So with that, let's jump into this replay. I hope you enjoy the conversation and if you do. Please be sure to leave a review for the show. Let me know what you think, and feel free to send a text to the show at any time. There's always a link in the episode description to text the show. All right, friend, let's jump in. So excited today to be joined by Jen Roberts, the founder of the Color Girls Liberation Lab, and I'm so excited to have Jen on. So, jen, thank you for joining.

Jennifer Roberts: 3:09

Thank you for having me, aaliyah, I'm excited to be here.

Aliya Cheyanne: 3:12

I'm so excited to have you. So I just want to give a quick little intro about how I met you and how I know about your work. So I know you through Ashante and Ashante is a former boss of mine, a mentor and a friend and Jen and Ashante friends and they held a really just, powerful and awesome retreat last year, in 2023, that I got to join and be a part of, and that's how I met you in person. But I had seen some of the work of Color Girls Liberation Lab on Instagram prior to that and I love the quotes that you share, just from pulling from ancestors and people in your life friends, family, whoever and just sharing really important tidbits of information.

Aliya Cheyanne: 4:00

I love your mission toward just freedom and liberty and safety for Black women and others just freedom and liberty and safety for Black women and others and I'm just you know so inspired by what you do. So I wanted to spend some time talking with you today and that's how I met you, but, of course, I want to give you an opportunity to introduce yourself to the people and share more about you. So you know who is Jen, who are you and what do you want people to know about who you are today?

Jennifer Roberts: 4:28

Well, first, thank you for inviting me.

Jennifer Roberts: 4:30

I love you know, I love hearing when dreams come to pass, and I remember hearing you talk about wanting to do this when we met each other, and so just congratulations on you know, something that you thought about in your brain coming out in real life.

Jennifer Roberts: 4:46

So first just want to say that and, yeah, I feel I try to think about how I describe myself, how I want people to see me Sometimes changes depending on what part of my identity I feel like I'm leaning into more at the time, but I would say that I want to be seen as a Black woman, a mother, an artist, a creative, a dreamer, a designer, a my way to Atlanta and Chicago and now right outside of DC to live, and so I have had really great experiences in my life that taught me a whole lot of things and got me to meet a lot of people, especially a lot of dope black women, which I feel really blessed in my life to have had so many really dope black women on my path and folks that really show up for me, and so I think all roads were leading to Color Girls Lab in a sense and creating what I feel like I've always had that I feel like other women haven't been as fortunate to have.

Jennifer Roberts: 6:03

And yeah, so that's a little bit about how I see myself, or how I'm thinking about myself. In this moment, I feel like I'm a multi-task kid, so, like at any given moment, I'll be like I want to highlight something different. But yeah, that's how I'm seeing myself today.

Aliya Cheyanne: 6:20

Beautiful. One of my favorite quotes or sayings that people say is that, at the end of the day, we contain multitudes, so how we show up in different spaces varies and, yeah, I described myself one way today and a year from now it might be different, so I feel you on that, but thank you. So, yeah, I'd love to dive a little bit more into Color Girls Lab Color Girls Liberation Lab and I would love to know what you were doing before you found this purpose and this calling. What work were you doing prior and what kind of led you to wanting to create Color Girls Liberation Lab? You touched on it a little bit before creating more spaces like what you've created for yourself and for others, but what was that transition like from what we're doing before to jumping into this work now?

Jennifer Roberts: 7:14

Yeah, I started my career as a teacher on the South Side of Chicago, so I taught third grade and that experience taught me a ton and, as I was when I was a teacher, I didn't think I was going to teach forever, but I did think I was going to maybe venture off into med school, possibly at some point had been. My undergrad degree was a psychology, pre-med and um, but teaching really opened up um one, me realizing that medicine was not the path that I wanted to use to make change, and me really being in a place where I could see the inequities I had grown up with show up and what my students were going through decades later right, the same things my brother was dealing with my students were dealing with to almost two decades after the fact. And so I think it changed my idea of how I wanted to leave my own personal mark in the world. And so I moved through different education spaces, really focused in on racial equity in particular in education specifically, equity in particular in education specifically, and I found my way to DC public schools and I worked there for a few years and when I left DC public schools I started my own race and equity consulting firm. And that was really because at the time this was almost a decade ago that is where I thought I could make change. I felt like I had a way of going about talking about racial equity that was very community centered and that focused less on just calling out things that we had gotten comfortable with, but really naming white supremacy what it? It was like, talking about racial equity in a very direct way, and so spent my time doing that, and in that process, you know, I came across a lot of black women who were either leading this work at their organization and so I was working with them, or were just at the places where I had either past worked or might've been a client of mine.

Jennifer Roberts: 9:27

And no matter how great we got the organization to be right, like those Black women still were marginalized in that space, right. No matter how much work we did, no matter how much it felt like they belonged a little bit more, like they still had no place to process what had happened before, and like how they were reconciling all of the shifts that people were making without what they felt were probably genuine intentions. And so I started thinking about how much of a toll the work was taking on me and what I was watching happening to friends of mine and other Black women too, and realizing the reason why I was okay is that I had this circle of Black women around me that I could say the truth to, and then they could say well, what are we going to do? How do we make this feel better? And in the process, I was also leaving a relationship that I had been in for almost 20 years, and so I was going through multiple transitions of not knowing if the work I wanted to do was where I wanted to be and that I could see something better for us and wanted it to be a space of imagination and play and design.

Jennifer Roberts: 10:33

I had been working in spaces around breast pump work and doing hackathons around hacking the breast pumping and family leave and things like that that pertain to what women were going through. And I was like, well, what would that look like if we just did that amongst ourselves? Like what if we spent more time like using our life like a laboratory and playing around and figuring out what we wanted, versus taking all of these things that people have told Black women we should be? And so the lab really birthed out of. Like what if I could create my circle of friends for everybody. And what if we could just get in here and be like, well, I want it to look like this and I want it to look like this. Well, let's try that and see, you know.

Jennifer Roberts: 11:12

And so I think, the combination of, like lots of things the crossroads of my, you know, mid at that time, my mid thirties coming out of a relationship, I've been in for a really a marriage, I've been in for a really long time transitioning in my workspace as an entrepreneur and as a racial equity consultant in the world in 2020. Like you know, everything just converged and it was like this is what I want. So I'm going to create what I think I want, what I think I hear other people want, and if they want it, they'll come and we'll see, you know, and that's really how it came about. I had the space to dream about it and I had people in my life who were like we're going to help you execute it. And so you know that that's where we are now almost three years later.

Aliya Cheyanne: 11:58

That, like having the space to dream about something, because only you can visualize what you want to create, and just having the space to do that is so important and what led to this moment. Even thinking back on the racial equity work you were doing with other women and women, you know, realizing what you were feeling and experiencing, but also witnessing what they were experiencing in different places is so important. I remember working at an organization that was super, super committed to racial equity work, being a part of the racial equity working group and still having to navigate certain experiences as a Black woman, despite what the organization was supposedly doing. Like it I don't know how to describe it not out of body experience, but it felt so like it's like is this real? Yeah?

Jennifer Roberts: 12:52

like a Twilight girl.

Aliya Cheyanne: 12:53

Yeah, just how to exactly Twilight Zone? That's exactly right, and I think it's so beautiful to have recognized those things and made the transition and then created the organization that you have now, having space to dream something beautiful for yourself and create the way for others to be involved too. That is definitely an act of liberation. So I love that. I think that's really amazing liberation. So I love that. I think that's really amazing. I think people talk a lot about founding and creating businesses and diving into creativity, and I think aspects of it it all looks really just transformative and I want to do it and I can do it but there's a lot of hardship that goes into doing it too, like a lot of people don't recognize like the grit and the grind that goes into getting to the other side.

Aliya Cheyanne: 14:23

So I'd love to know, maybe one of the toughest aspects of even founding your, your business, like there was an aspect of going through some hard and difficult transitionary things in life, yes, but actually cultivating the dream and building the business, what was one of the biggest hurdles you had to get over and even starting it in the very beginning?

Jennifer Roberts: 14:58

very beginning. You know the funny thing about it and I'll tell you two things. Like what was interesting in the start when I first started my consulting business that made it easier, I think, to do this one is at that time I honestly thought I had a bit of a cushion and so I didn't have as much fear. I kind of was like oh, you know, I have a second income coming in, because at that time I was married and I was like, oh, I can do it, right, like I can leap. And then when all of that kind of fell apart, right, then it really became a moment of for me.

Jennifer Roberts: 15:26

Well, all I have to do is commit a year to this. Like I was. Like, I know my skills, right, I can get a job, I can find somewhere to work. So like, let me just go hard on this for a year and this will give my brain a chance to rest from the last place I'm at and then I'll transition into something else. And that's really what I tell. I have told my asked myself that question every year for like the last eight years. Like it's, I never saw myself as being a permanent entrepreneur. So for me it really is a check-in with myself every year, like or do we want to go put the applications in for a job? Like what do we want to do?

Jennifer Roberts: 16:02

You know, and I'm not, saying that to discourage people, but I'm saying it to like. I do think that there's a level of flexibility that comes with entrepreneurship that makes it really important for you to decide why you want to do it, and so I wanted to have the flexibility you want to do it, and so I wanted to have the flexibility to be available for my daughter. Like she was young, I wanted to be able to go to school trips. I wanted to be able to end work early and pick her up from school, like those were the things that were important to me at that time, and so I made the decision about my career and, like you know, I'm still getting out of a little bit of debt because of that and all of these. I made choices, but they were about me living the life that I felt like was most free for me, and for me that meant entrepreneurship. That gave me the most flexibility, even with all the hardship that comes with that. Now I'm at the point where she's a little bit older, so just saying I want to be there for her is not a good enough reason anymore to stay in entrepreneurship, with all of the challenges that do come with it, and especially now me, given the space that I was in before Colored Girls Lab, and Colored Girls Lab still sits in the racial healing, racial justice space. So, essentially, I'm just changing the way I do my work, but I'm still doing the same thing. And we know what has happened since 2020 in terms of the support that's being given to those of us who do this type of work. So, like I had a lot of success in 2020, 21, 22. It is a lot harder right now to have to keep that up at that same level of pace, right. So just being flexible or just having time for my daughter, that's not a good enough reason anymore.

Jennifer Roberts: 17:34

Like I have to have another reason that is propelling me to want to deal with all the other things, and for me, that is that I really believe that I'm here to create space for people to be free. I believe that is one of my values for myself and that is a value I have for what I want to see for other black women. And until I could find I don't know that I could find any other space where I could do this, that is now become my motivating factor for saying, like I have to figure out whatever. That means sitting down with the people who love me to be like how can I generate whatever income I need or the space I need? And to just trust my ancestors and God that they put me on the path. So the provision is going to be made and do the thing.

Jennifer Roberts: 18:16

And so, like, I think the hardest part for me has been like trusting myself and trusting, like God and my ancestors, that I'm doing exactly what I'm supposed to do Because I do feel good doing it. I don't feel uncomfortable, I don't feel like I felt when I was in my other jobs. Right, I feel good and there's a reason I feel good because I'm supposed to be doing it.

Jennifer Roberts: 18:38

So that means sometimes I've had to get really creative about how I get to keep doing it. And right now, to be completely honest, like the hardest part is money, it's capital. Like I have every reason to go try to put applications in right now. Like it is really really tough for business owners and particularly for those of us who are working in this space. You know, like people are here, people are helping, people are showing up for me, like I'm putting in, you know, every grant application I can think of. You're like all the things that we all do when we really want something.

Jennifer Roberts: 19:13

But I would say at first, and sometimes, sometimes consistently, it's been trusting myself and then also, like you double on finances onto that. I think that that plays a part too. But I think my approach to the fact that I never kind of saw myself at first as being an entrepreneur for my life even though I do now I didn't see that at first it also lets me detach from the idea of entrepreneur as a persona, like I'm not married to that. So like if I decide at some point in my life that it's not right for me to be an entrepreneur anymore and I'm going to go because I found a place that I really want to do good work for and I will Like I will make the shift, just like I've decided that the entrepreneur pursuit I was in at one point is not the right one for me and I'm shifting myself into more of the work that the lab is doing.

Jennifer Roberts: 20:04

I think that's the joy of being an entrepreneur, if you let it be. But also you got to trust yourself, you got to have good people around. You know all of that stuff.

Aliya Cheyanne: 20:13

I think that's really powerful. I I'm also realizing from some of what you know, all of that stuff. I think that's really powerful. I I'm also realizing from some of what you shared, I realized I'm I'm in a stage that you were in maybe like eight plus years ago. Um, just like shifting out of certain workspaces and environments and like shifting into a consulting space.

Aliya Cheyanne: 20:34

Because I did start a consulting business too, like in about four years now, and I was consulting in communications and I was doing that for maybe about two years and I was like I don't know if I want to continue doing this, like I am going to put the application in, I am going to go get Bob. And I did that and I would say almost immediately I was like yeah, no. And I was like no, and yeah, yeah. And I'm grateful that I you know, obviously still have the business that I created. I can continue to build on it. I can continue to pivot and grow and do additional things. That I want to security when it comes to work, because you can have some degree of security with a job to the extent that the job keeps your role. At any given moment the job can decide to let you go. But I understand the degree of security with that, but it's a different beast chasing security with entrepreneurship because it ebbs and flows and it comes in waves.

Aliya Cheyanne: 21:58

You really do have to lean on your community. You really do have to humble yourself and get comfortable with asking for help and sometimes it's over. Yeah, like it's not always comfortable. Like it's not always comfortable. So it's really interesting. But and I've also learned that there's no pride in asking for what you need Like I'm leaning on my community heavier than I've ever like tried to lean on them.

Aliya Cheyanne: 22:29

Or like just you know showing up for me in ways that I need and pursuing all the grants. Like you're pursuing the grants and just you know doing my own due diligence about how I can raise money for what I want to do and um, but also being grateful for people in my community who are showing up for me in different ways, like even this conversation between you and I and you know reaching out to folks and them even giving me the time of day and saying yes to, like you know, educate me and others who are interested in pursuing their own path and creating their own lane. So there's just so much in that and, yeah, thank you for sharing and being vulnerable about your journey and the hardships, because it's it's not always like, it's not always easy, it's not always the fun stuff Like it gets real hard and they don't tell you that.

Jennifer Roberts: 23:17

They don't tell you that part. I mean like, well, they do, but they don't. You know, like I don't know that, like I knew it was going to be hard to financially keep myself afloat.

Jennifer Roberts: 23:28

I knew that, especially because of what I do, there would be these ebbs and flows of money, and I'm still learning how to deal with that. Right, you learn a lot about your financial health. Doing being an entrepreneur like, oh boy, like I have to get my stuff together and I'm still not all the way together, like I've had to get myself together and I'm working on that. I think that you know. On top of all of those things, though, what I think you learned the most is what, if you let yourself, is what you really want. So, just like you said, you went back and then realized nope, nope, nope, this is not for me.

Jennifer Roberts: 24:03

I have other women in our community who took time away from a job, took some time to do what they wanted to do on their entrepreneurial journey, and then really did decide like, hey, no, I do want the particular type of security that comes with a job, but I know I'm not going back for anything less than this, this or this. It needs to be this type of person that I'm working with, this type of space. And so they went back into the workforce with a different mindset about what they were willing to accept willing to put themselves through and so, yeah, they are happy in the space they are in now.

Jennifer Roberts: 24:38

They would be just as happy if they weren't in it and they were doing their own thing too.

Jennifer Roberts: 24:41

And now they know that, like I have both, like you said, I know I have this that I can go back to, and to me that's the part of the space I'm creating, or the space I see other women creating for Black women to dream bigger and dream more out loud.

Jennifer Roberts: 24:54

That's the space that I feel like we're offering Choices. You should have a choice, you should get to have a choice, and it shouldn't be hard for you to be able to exercise that choice that you dreamed up. We should be able to find you the community, the space, the resources for you to be able to at least try it and then decide like nope, that ain't what I want, or yep, that is what I want, or I want some version of this, let me play some more. And that is the space that I hope to provide and the example that I hope not just for me, like from all the other women who are in our space the examples of what it looks like to do that type of playing with your life until you find the free space that feels right for you, whether that's a nine to five job or whether it's becoming an entrepreneur, and for me and many other people around me, entrepreneurship is the right choice. For us and other people won't be, and that's okay.

Aliya Cheyanne: 25:46

Yeah, yeah, I love that. Like just that terminology of like finding the space to play and see what works for you. That's so important. Like finding the space to play and see what works for you, that's so important. Because when I took my first career break, that was we're both at together and I knew after leaving that job that I was like, yeah, I need, I need something different. Like I need to decompress from the experience I had first and foremost and these are going to be some of my non-negotiables entering the workforce again. Like there's no way I can deal with certain environments, certain types of leadership, like all of these things like cares, what matters, and benefits too, because I'm also like I've had good benefits in jobs and I've had bad benefits at jobs and I'm just like, listen, these are the types of things I'm also like I've had good benefits and jobs and I've had bad benefits and jobs and I'm just like listen these are the types of things I'm tolerating, these are the things that I'm not.

Aliya Cheyanne: 26:41

So I think just having that clarity and being able to in my case, I've teetered between both over the last like several years but just being clear on what I need and what I want, and having the space and the capacity to do it, because there are a lot of people who want to do it and they don't have the space to play, they don't have the space to dream. It's just focusing on how am I going to pay this next bill or get this next meal on the table, yeah, there's no space to even play or dream.

Aliya Cheyanne: 27:13

So even recognizing the privilege and the ability to be able to do that, or making the choice that, all else be damned, I'm going to do it anyway, it's so important. So I feel like you might've answered this without me asking directly, but I would love to just get a firm answer of what you feel like is it's kind of rewarding thing about the work that you do. Like I know creating the space for yourself and other women is rewarding, but like in your heart of hearts, like when you think about your purpose, your mission, like why you did all of this. Like what feels good in your body and your mind and your heart as you do this work each day. Like what is the most rewarding thing to you that you can think of.

Jennifer Roberts: 28:02

I think I have two, because I have one that's like rewarding because of me, like the work I've done, but then there's like for myself, my internal work, but then there's parts of it that are rewarding because of what I see other people getting to experience.

Jennifer Roberts: 28:16

So, like I, the most rewarding thing, I think for me is that and I want to say it might've been Ashante that said this to me she was like this lab is not just for other people, like this lab is for you too, and I feel like that is what I have been able to experience is my ability to dream bigger, my ability to just trust and really lean into the things that feel good to me and create more, and so I think that has been the joy of what I've been able to do is just come up with ideas and watch them happen and trust myself that they can, that I can do them. Um, that has been probably the one of the most rewarding things as of late for me. But then, um, I just anytime I hear a woman who has been in our space say that this space has changed them, and I've been hearing it a lot lately and I'm so grateful, like that is probably the most rewarding thing outside is that this space changed me, or this space has me dreaming more.

Jennifer Roberts: 29:56

Those types of compliments are, you know, like? Those are the things that make me tear up. Those are the things that make me like, nope, you can't go back to a regular job. Are the things that are like no, no, no, like we're. We have to keep going because people are operating differently, because they found themselves in the space with, with the women that come in, come in here, like they they have, they have found their way here and it has allowed them to just see something so different for their lives and to watch it happen in different ways through different women, like that has probably been.

Aliya Cheyanne: 30:37

I'm just grateful to be able to do it yeah, I feel like so only gotten to experience like one in-person experience because of the retreat last year, but I see so much of the spaces that you're cultivating for women, like I know you just had a like a really fun um listening party for Cowboy Carter and it was really nice to see.

Aliya Cheyanne: 30:59

I know I know that blip of a reel is only like a clip of just the joy and fun that was in the room, but even just watching that I'm just like damn. Like look, look at community Like room. But even just watching that, I'm just like damn. Like look look at community, like this is so nice, like how fun would it have been to be there and like join you all, and I even think about even that one time at that retreat. Just the oh my gosh, my emergency alert is going on because of the earthquake. That's so embarrassing.

Jennifer Roberts: 31:29

Sorry, no it's not embarrassing.

Aliya Cheyanne: 31:31

At least you're working now that earthquake was like before we even got on to do this like, like, what is going on? No, you are so late, I would have already been buried beneath the rubble.

Jennifer Roberts: 31:45

At this point, I'm not ready for the apocalypse. We are not ready listen.

Aliya Cheyanne: 31:53

I'm not ready at all. I say all the time. I love certain shows that are, like you know, apocalypse, zombie, like I'll watch that stuff. But in my reality I say all the time, listen, just lay me down, cause I'm not fighting with y'all over food.

Aliya Cheyanne: 32:11

I'm not like, I'm okay, take me to my ancestors, I'm out. Like, take me to the, to the ancestral plane, I'm good. Um, that's not. I'm like I don't even feel the first. I don't even feel feeling what happened. Okay, about the aftershocks, anyway, but I was saying, even thinking back to the retreat and just the space that you cultivated for us, we'd workshop with the flowers and creating our own flowers and sage sticks that we could burn, and just even learning more about sage sticks that we could burn, and just even learning more about herbal medicine, really, which is deeply rooted to our ancestors. I'm going to pull this all together.

Aliya Cheyanne: 33:03

But recently I went to New Orleans and I went with my mom and my sisters and I have complicated feelings around visiting plantations, but it was my third time visiting a plantation. They have them out there. They have Oak Alley, they have the Laura Plantation and then they have the Whitney Plantation and this time I went to the Whitney because the Whitney it honestly it does center the lives of enslaved people more than the others, whereas like the other ones you go to, it's all about the big house and the owners and I'm like I don't care bro, like so interesting, it's so interesting to me. I feel conflicted, being on ground like that, knowing the history, but also finding peace. It was a beautiful, peaceful day and they have these huge oak trees everywhere and other trees have been growing for hundreds of years and I'm just like I always think to myself the things that the trees witnessed and the things that the trees know from that land and that ground. I'm just like it's a very surreal experience going.

Aliya Cheyanne: 34:20

But I remember the stories, like there was a professor who did a huge project to collect the narratives and the stories of people who worked the grounds by force because they were enslaved.

Aliya Cheyanne: 34:30

But there was one in particular and I don't even remember the specific name, but this person was retelling the story of how they couldn't have access to medicine or medication because they didn't have money and it wasn't. You know, they weren't able to do it because they were enslaved people. But they were talking about what they foraged from the land around them, passed down from generations, about what they forage from the land around them passed down from generations. About what they knew would heal wounds, what they knew would help settle their stomachs, what they knew was good for pain, and there's a foraging group that I'm a part of here in New York City and I've gone on some foraging experiences with them and learned more about plant medicine and to bring it back to the event last year with you and the workshop with the flowers, just even learning more about just the herbal medicine of the flowers and what they represent, what they meant to our ancestors, what they mean spiritually, is so important I still have. I never burned my stick.

Jennifer Roberts: 35:27

I still have it on my altar.

Aliya Cheyanne: 35:30

Yeah, but, and the beauty of having that experience and being able to bring my grandmother who loves gardening, who loves flowers, who loves that from a time she recalls back home in Jamaica with her own grandmother, and how we keep these traditions rich and alive and we create space for each other to play and call on things that our ancestors knew and know and hand down to us in different ways, I thought was so beautiful. It's a memory and an experience that I keep with me. So I say all that to say that what you're doing has such a huge purpose beyond you, bigger than you. The way that you're impacting people in your lives, the memories that you're creating, the experiences that you're creating, like their time, mean a lot. They go deep and they go back further than you know, because there's so much that you can recall, like when you have a moment to play and to dream and to do these things and think about what it signified for people in your past too.

Aliya Cheyanne: 36:31

So I'm just grateful for the work that you're doing, and I'm not in the DMV area, but I see it and I love it and I always share it and it feels like home in many ways. That was a very roundabout way of saying it feels like home. In many ways, like that was a very roundabout way of saying it feels like home because it calls on memories that I might not remember firsthand but maybe, like my ancestors, might remember. So it feels very important and significant to me, um, and I can call on those things when I need them. So, yeah, that was a lot, yeah, thank you no, thank you so much.

Jennifer Roberts: 37:08

Like you know that feels good, like if you're using a metaphor like that, that means home feels good to you. And that is so important to me in this space is that people know it feels good.

Jennifer Roberts: 37:22

One of the things I've noticed recently is that more people are okay showing up by themselves to things that I do and I don't know about you, but I'm kind of extroverted as I am, I have a lot of social anxiety, so going to something by myself takes a whole lot of effort, and so the fact that I know that's probably the case for a lot of people and they feel okay showing up by themselves because they know I might not know anybody there and that's okay, because anybody there is going to feel good, like that is what I want, like you know, like that if no place feels safe, you know you could feel safe here, and so the idea of this place feeling like home, I really appreciate that, and I do think that we're healing our ancestors when we do this type of work.

Jennifer Roberts: 38:06

I think we're healing ourselves, oh yeah, and I think that our ancestors are happy and glad that we are taking time to do some of these things.

Jennifer Roberts: 38:14

Like I still think about your grandmother and how much she lit up, like doing all of the flowers and, like you know, telling us what she remembered or like what she knew, like all her knowledge and I, when you're talking about making memories, like that was. That is a core memory for me. I'm not going to forget that, like her being there was really important and I'm so glad that she was, and it was very reminiscent of my own grandmother, who was a master gardener and like, really just beautiful, always beautiful flowers. And so you know, I think you're right, I think we're healing our own children, we're healing our ancestors, we're doing all of it and it feels good and it also just helps us not tolerate the BS, like we're, just like we're not going to allow that type of feeling to infiltrate with so much. After you can experience feelings like this. And so, yeah, the community part is this Like the cheat code is going to be being able to get to your friends on foot.

Jennifer Roberts: 39:13

You know, like, how close are you to your community, like can you walk, Can you get to them?

Aliya Cheyanne: 39:19

Like you know that's going to really work.

Aliya Cheyanne: 39:23

Yeah, yeah, community I think about all the things I've gone to alone, like in the past, because either people weren't available or interested, but I still wanted to do it and I showed up anyway and had a great time and made great memories.

Aliya Cheyanne: 39:36

So I think a lot of people just even me too, a lot of people are just looking for community. They're trying to find their people in their tribe, if they haven't already, or if they have, maybe trying to expand it, and I think the more space exists where people can find themselves and see themselves and do that, the better it is. So, yeah, okay, I feel like we we talked about a lot of heavy and deep stuff, but I would love to know. I would love to know, like I've heard many entrepreneurs that, like having a ritual, having a routine, having self-care is so important because it can be very heavy and very hard. So I'd love to know, like, what kind of keeps you grounded in this work that you do every day? Like, what are some ways you take care of yourself to be able to give of yourself so much to do the work that you do?

Jennifer Roberts: 40:33

Yeah, so when I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing, dance is a ritual of mine and I'm in the studio taking dance classes and I have been a little out of it, out of that habit for a bit and I'm learning. I'm kind of like discovering why it's been harder for me to go, and so I've been like journaling about it and talking to people about it. I'm realizing that I knew, I always knew, dance was really important to me and it's a very important ritual, both for my freedom practice but also my rest practice. And you know, processing when it isn't hitting the way it used to, has been interesting for me to like process. Why that is so?

Jennifer Roberts: 41:14

But dance is normally a ritual, and then also I'm really into music and so either just playing an album that I really love from top to bottom and dancing around in my house, or going to a show from some of my favorite artists I try to make time to do those types of things. And then in general I really love good food with good people, and so a lot of my rituals do have to deal with. Some of them are alone, but a lot of my rituals have to deal with community, like I like to be with people and so, because I create community, sometimes my reset things are community where I didn't have to do the creating, where I just get to go with the people who I know are going to charge me up and make me feel good, so like a really good meal with like two or three of my close girlfriends where we can just laugh and we're not thinking about like we just trying all the things.

Jennifer Roberts: 42:10

and you know, that's kind of something that I do pretty much on a monthly basis just to like reset myself with my people so those are like my community rituals that I feel like are important to me and then my like kind of solitude rituals are.

Jennifer Roberts: 42:25

I do daydreaming. I have a place near my, my in my room that I like to sit in, that has like I can see out the window and I'll just sit there and I'll daydream a little bit, drink some tea, you know that type of thing. So those are kind of the things that I do to reset myself and I'm actually it's interesting you ask that question because I'm in a bit of a transition right now. So I'm actually trying out new rituals, like I'm trying to get used to a new morning and evening ritual that's going to work better for me.

Jennifer Roberts: 42:57

I just got recently diagnosed with ADHD, so I'm like also like I have to get my routines in order to get my routines in order, and so this has been like a time of experimentation for me, too, where I'm like, okay, I have to, I actually need to decide some other rituals that will make me feel both good in my body but also just have my mindset.

Aliya Cheyanne: 43:19

for the creativity I want Peace of mind.

Jennifer Roberts: 43:20

Yeah, so yeah.

Aliya Cheyanne: 43:22

I love my rituals, man.

Jennifer Roberts: 43:24

That's the freedom that you get from entrepreneurship. To do that if you let yourself. I feel like that is a freedom. I have gotten from entrepreneurship. I don't think I would have had in the same way in my other regular job and I value it a lot.

Aliya Cheyanne: 43:38

Oh yeah, I love all of those. I'm more introverted. I feel like I can be an ambivert when I need to be, but I'm definitely more introverted. But I also love connecting with my friends on a somewhat of a basis or a schedule kind of. So some people we have things penned on the calendars. Others we just hit each other up when we're missing each other. We want to do things, so I love that. But also one of my solitude rituals is giving myself the space to daydream. Like I also have a cozy spot in my room where I drink my tea. That's by a window, so I love that.

Aliya Cheyanne: 44:33

One of my one of my best friends also um struggle in deficit disorder, um, adhd or ADD, and I'm noticing also that a lot of black women are getting diagnosed with things so much later in life because certain things show up differently for us. So there's like a wave with women getting um diagnosed with ADD or ADHD, but also like learning they're on the spectrum of autism and like so many things because it shows up differently for us. Or you know, we're learning that AD shows up differently for us than it typically does for you know other people. So it's just very interesting that so many of us are learning new aspects of ourselves later in in life when it could have been helpful to know sooner, so that you don't think like something's wrong with you, you don't think you're great. You know like you could have. So many of us could have learned to manage and navigate life differently had we known sooner. You know Absolutely. So definitely. I'm sending you love and care on your support with and support on your journey with that, as you're learning more about it and how to like reshape your life, basically to hold space for these aspects of yourself and how it shows up in life and work and everything else.

Aliya Cheyanne: 45:46

So, yeah, that's really interesting. Thank you for sharing that as well. Oh, thank you. Yeah, of course. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like I don't know. This has just been really great, but I really have enjoyed this with you, like you're, yeah, sharing so much wisdom and I think that's been really powerful. But something that I find interesting is the way that different people think about legacy. For some people, that looks like the work they're doing. For some people, that looks like, looks like you know parenthood and their children. For some people, that looks totally different.

Jennifer Roberts: 46:31

So I would love to know what you think about legacy and more about the legacy you're building um and what that looks like to you yeah, I think about legacy twofold, like and I guess this is just my my philosophy on almost everything is like both, and you know, small and big, very fractal, like thinking so, um, on the like, my immediate space. When I think about legacy, like I have a daughter, I am constantly thinking about what life is going to look like for her and how I leave. I don't know that I personally, though I think I'm putting things into the world that are good. I don't know that I personally can make this world any better for her, but I do hope that I am showing her some ways to navigate it better, right, to navigate it better than I did, to navigate it better than her grandmother did and her great grandmother before that. Right, and I hope that I'm showing her like ways to live freely, to make her own choices, to stand up for herself, in the way that I'm doing that myself, not because I'm always telling her, but because she literally sees me do it. Like she said, she's seeing me rest and she's seeing me take time for myself, like I want to be a model in that way, because I really think I hope my legacy is like starting to be one of the people in my lineage that says that rest is ours for the taking and that dreaming is what we do. And so I think that that's what I hope I'm offering to her, that I hope that makes easier for her children and her children after that and everything.

Jennifer Roberts: 48:13

And then on the communal side of things, I think I'm doing and trying to do that same work in community with Black women through the lab, so that we can have the same thing that people just have these examples that they can see of what it looks like to be and live freely, and that it looks a lot of different ways, you know.

Jennifer Roberts: 48:33

And so I think I hope my legacy is that people look back and say, like that person or that space or people who were in that space taught me how to be more expansive in what I believe was possible for myself. And so, yeah, I think I look at legacy both for my family and then as a community as a whole. And so I don't know that anything I do is going to be big enough for it to be remembered or go down in history. But I do know that energy permeates and it doesn't go away, and so I hope I'm putting the right the energy that will keep these feelings of freedom and this ability to want and desire it in the folks who have been in my orbit's lineages for forever, until we don't exist anymore.

Aliya Cheyanne: 49:25

Yeah. You know, that's so big, jen, that's beautiful and that's so big, like, on the one hand, on the one hand, to say, like you know how to print, this work might leave, and then, on the other hand, to say, like I'm impacting, I want to impact lineages like that. That's big and I think that's exactly what you're doing Like whether you notice it or not, you're planting big seeds.

Jennifer Roberts: 49:50

You're planting big seeds, thank you, and you know, I think, the way that I make myself not feel the way, that the reason why I was like, oh, this doesn't feel like I'm going to leave, I guess, when I think about doing something like monumental, like something that might end up being in a history book or showing up, like I don't see myself doing anything like that, you know.

Jennifer Roberts: 50:11

But I think it feels less daunting because I'm just doing my part with the locus of control I have, and that's the part that I think we all could do, like we all can do more within the locus of control we have, and we don't always use that, and so I think it feels less daunting because I feel like I do have a good community and I do feel like they trust me, and so within this very small locus of control, I think I can do a lot to change mindsets, right, and so I'm going to just do that. And I know those people got their own locus of control, that then they can change something, and I'm going to just trust that they will. I'm going to just do my part in this so that the pressure is off. I'm having fun with it.

Jennifer Roberts: 50:54

If we impact a thousand people, great, but guess what? These 10 people that are right here? I know they're different, and so I'm going to just go ahead and play with that. So I think that that is what I try to focus on more, and that really came from doing all this racial equity work. I had to let go of the idea that I might not ever see what I'm dreaming of in my lifetime, but I do know that there are some very small microcosms of people who operate differently because we made something really great together. Differently because we made something really great together.

Aliya Cheyanne: 51:27

Yeah, and I love that. I wish I still had this exact quote in front of me. But I saw something the other day and I don't remember where, if it was Instagram or TikTok, but the person was basically doing the math and saying, like it took this many ancestors to make you and it was like, over, however, you got to this now, over 240 something or 250 something ancestors to make just me. When you think about all the sets of parents that had to come together to make me, to make my parents, to make my grandparents, to make my great grandparents, to make my great, great and I, when I say you're planting seeds is, even if your name or color girls liberation lab doesn't go down in a history book, you're planting a seed. Now that, many generations later, when, when we're not here anymore, someone is, I have the space to rest and I have the space to dream, because my ancestor did that and they planted that seed going down and I think that's so beautiful and I think that's just more powerful than you know.

Aliya Cheyanne: 52:39

So you're not going to feel all of it now and in this lifetime you're making a huge difference for lifetimes to come and I love that if there was one piece of advice, or if there was something you wish. You knew when you first started, that you think would benefit another entrepreneur who's starting out now. If you have any tidbits of just advice or wisdom you'd like to share, I'd love for you to share that with our audience.

Jennifer Roberts: 53:20

I think, get the right people around you. Whatever the right people are you, whatever the right people are and people you can be vulnerable with, people you can ask for help from or who can find you help, even if they can't give it to you, but that you can ask and say that you need help from. I think those are the people. That is what I wish I would have done more of in the beginning and that I'm glad I have now. And I say that because there's so many times where either we think we're by ourselves in a business mistake or a business venture and we're not by ourselves.

Jennifer Roberts: 53:58

There are other people either struggling through the same thing or who have overcome the same thing, and as soon as we open our mouths and ask for help, we usually find out we're not alone, and then we can get about the business of figuring out how to fix it. And so I just wish I had told more people earlier things that I was struggling with and found the right kind of crew of people to have around me that could help remind me of things that I had promised myself I would do, and then also that I could be vulnerable with and ask for help from. I do think I have that now and it's making a big difference, and so that's why I wish in those first few years of business I had done that. I don't know if I had as many examples to look at, and I feel like I have way more now, and so, yeah, that would be my advice A good core group of people that you can trust and be vulnerable with and ask for help from.

Aliya Cheyanne: 54:56

I love it. Jen, I just thank you so much for taking some time to chat with me and the audience and share more about your journey and your work. I really appreciate it. This has been really dope and you're so knowledgeable and so wise and this is just really great. So thank you so much for coming on here.

Jennifer Roberts: 55:12

I had such a good time. I appreciate you asking me all these good questions, so thank you.

Aliya Cheyanne: 55:19

That makes me happy here too, so let the people know where to find you.

Jennifer Roberts: 55:28

You can find out more about colored girls liberation lab at colored girls laborg on the web or colored girls lab on Instagram. If you're interested in becoming a member, you can find that out on our website or go to communitycoloredgirlslaborg. So all of those places are where you can find out what's going on with us.

Aliya Cheyanne: 55:52

That I link that in the show notes as well, so it's easy for everyone. And thank you again. This is great. Thank you, I had a great time.