Ep. 39 | A Journey Through the Primordial Soup ft. Adriana Michelle, The Death Alchemist

"The fear of death is also the fear of life." This week, we're journeying through the 'primordial soup' with Adriana Michelle, The Death Alchemist.

Adriana's compassionate storytelling and unique perspective offers us a chance to explore death and grief through the lens of cultural heritage and ancestral connection. With her mission to create a space where these difficult conversations can happen with care, Adriana brings both her personal and professional experiences to the table, guiding us through the importance of honoring our ancestors and finding tools to navigate life’s transitions.

Read the blog post!

More from Adriana:

• Visit amoryalquimia.com
• Follow @thedeathalchemist on IG
• Listen to Vida Podcast

Resources:

• Vida Podcast - Episode 4: The Death of Self
• Ted Talk - Why thinking about death helps you live a better life, Alua Arthur
• GMA - Regina King talks about her grief after son’s death
• Sensual Faith Ep. 39 - What Does the Unchained You Look Like?
• Therapy for Black Girls - Session 355: The Work of Death Doulas
• Hold for Maintenance - Hold for Virtual
• Small Doses with Amanda Seales: Side Effects of Honoring Death (with Dr. Nicole Truesdell)
• Shaping the Shift Podcast - Death & The Girl Series: Attachments & All
• Unruly with Shelah Marie - Grief & Healing: Navigating Loss with Asha Edouard

Support:

• Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-TALK
• Dial "988" for the Crisis Line

Chapters

• 1:31 Death and Grief With Adriana Michelle
• 16:08 Exploring Fear and Cultural Disconnection
• 23:40 Navigating Suicidal Ideation and Community Support
• 35:00 Compassion and Preparation for Death
• 41:00 Preparing for Death and Grief
• 47:19 Honoring Grief and Continuing Connections
• 1:00:13 Symbolism in Death and Grief
• 1:09:36 Sharing Grief Support and Connection

Transcript

Aliya Cheyanne: 1:31

Hi friends, welcome back to the Prolific Hub podcast.

Aliya Cheyanne: 1:35

I'm so excited and so honored to be joined by Adriana Michelle on this episode.

Aliya Cheyanne: 1:43

Adriana is an incredible individual and she has the Instagram page, the Death Alchemist, which is one of my favorite pages on Instagram favorite accounts, and I'm just so honored to be in conversation with her about topics around death and grief that are heavy, but they are natural parts of life. Death is inevitable. Grief is inevitable, especially during a time where we're witnessing so much collective grief and collective death in the world. So before we jump into today's episode, I want to invite you to check in with yourself. This is not a trigger warning per se, but we do touch on themes around grief, around death, around suicidal ideation. So if you are not in the head or heart space to tune into that right now, I invite you to come back to this episode at a time that feels better for you to engage with the conversation and listen in, if you are up for the conversation and decide to move forward right now. Thank you for tuning in and holding space for the topics today. Adriana is one of the few people I've just had the opportunity and the experience of coming into conversation with around these topics and she handles it with so much tenderness and gentleness and care and grace, which is ultimately what topics around death and grief serve. So I'm very grateful to be in conversation with her to talk more about it.

Aliya Cheyanne: 3:20

So we are going to jump into the episode shortly, but first I want to share just a little bit more about Adriana. So Adriana Michelle, also known as the Death Alchemist, is a death doula, bruja, storyteller and xenophile. She is the first generation Mexican-American who grew up in the liminal space of existing as a border baby. Her work is guided by her ancestors, which include her mom and her stepfather, who both died in 2015 and 2022, as well as her abuela, doña Fernanda, who raised her as a baby and was the first to assuage any fears she may have encountered regarding death and dying. Some of her earliest memories in Mexico are of watching Walter Mercado with her grandmother and other ladies, as well as walking around town and connecting with the neighbors. Adriana's work and mission is focused on reimagining the way we interact with life, death, grief, the afterlife, and how we each move through the spiral path of this incarnation and connect to one another. Adriana is just amazing and I truly, truly loved and enjoyed our conversation together and I'm so excited to share that with you now. So, without further ado, let's jump into the episode.

Aliya Cheyanne: 4:40

Hi everyone, welcome back to the Prolific Hub podcast. I'm your host, aaliyah Cheyenne, and I'm so excited and honored today to be joined by Adriana Michelle. Hi Adriana, hi Aaliyah, thank you for having me, thank you for being here. I'm so excited. So I am going to give Adriana an opportunity to share more about just herself and her work, but first I wanted to share how I know of your work.

Aliya Cheyanne: 5:08

So I found the Death Alchemist page on Instagram, I want to say, a couple of years ago now. I've been following loyally ever since and it's one of the few and first pages that I've ever seen just talk so openly and poetically and candidly and beautifully about death, which is not always an easy topic to talk about, and grief. It has resonated with me ever since and I have loved it ever since. So I'm just so grateful to be in conversation with you today about a topic that might feel heavy but is really important. Yes, with that, with that, yes, I would love to give you just an opportunity to introduce yourself to the audience, for folks who may not be aware of your work, what you would love for them to know about who you are in the world today.

Adriana Michelle: 6:00

Wow, thank you. Thank you for the introduction. Who am I? Right, that is such a philosophical question, but I'll just start with. Yeah, my name is Adriana Michelle.

Adriana Michelle: 6:12

People know me on the internet as the death alchemist and my mission overall is just to allow folks a space to feel comfortable, curious to speak on things like death and grief, and definitely through an ancestral lens as well. I'm first gen Mexican American and that's just super important to me because I just know you know the few of the questions you sent me like I just know how important that is to have an ancestral connection, to have tools, to have medicine, really to be able to face these transitions that are, again, very normal. This is a normal part of life. But that's essentially me.

Adriana Michelle: 7:01

And using film to also allow people to be more comfortable, because if you are watching a movie you're being entertained. But a lot of the films that we at least the films I love, dramas and comedies there is a thread of you know it's about the human experience essentially. So watching films is my favorite way to explore things like that, because people are being entertained. They don't realize that they're actually facing certain topics within the human experience that are hard to talk about. So, yeah, that's just a little bit about me. I'm super honored to have this mission I guess you could call it this path in life and to talk to people like you who want to talk about it too.

Aliya Cheyanne: 7:49

Thank you. Thank you, that was beautiful and I love you referring to all of that in short, as a mission. For me, it feels very much like purpose, and what a gift it is to come into this world and to lean so heavily into something that so many people it's inevitable but so many people don't want to acknowledge. I think that's really profound and really beautiful. Thank you, thanks. So again, I found the page, your page, the Death Alchemist, so I can imagine what might have led you to create a page of that nature, but I you know, if you feel comfortable sharing, I would love to know what kind of led you to creating the page and how it's, you know, morphed into what it is today. Yeah, definitely.

Adriana Michelle: 8:37

Growing up in Mexico with my abuela, death was always something to be honored and be again, be curious about, and not necessarily feared. So it's always been there. I mean, especially if you know about Mexican culture, dia de los Muertos it's super normalized right, which I love, but I never really dove super deep into it until my mom died in 2015 after a long battle with breast cancer. So that was my introduction to doula work and I didn't realize what I was doing at the time, but that's what was happening. So that was back in 2015, obviously went through a lot of grief and a lot of escaping as well. It was really hard for my friends and family to really hold space for me. It was a lot of trying to I don't know make me feel better by telling me like well, your mom loved you and things like that. Because one of the biggest things that I experienced I know a lot of people can relate to this is after my mom died. I really wanted to only see the good in her, like I didn't want to think about the trauma that she experienced as an immigrant and the subsequent stuff that happened to me as well. So that really molded this space as well when I sat with that and I was angry, you know, I was angry with my theas, with my family, who were just trying to tell me your mom loved you. You know, blah, blah, blah Like just trying to being dismissive, essentially and that happened a lot friends as well who were just so terrified. A lot of my friends had never gone through any sort of trauma, hadn't ever lost anybody, still had their family unit intact. And for me it was just like you know, like the tower in the in the tarot. It was just like destruction after destruction. So, essentially, from 2015 for the next five years, I was just unpack destruction after destruction. So, essentially, from 2015 for the next five years, I was just unpacking all of that and really leaning into spiritual work. And in 2020, it was my mom's five-year anniversary. I'll never forget it. It was March. It was March of 2020.

Adriana Michelle: 10:50

I went to New York City with a friend who also lost her mom to kind of celebrate, right To honor the five-year anniversary. As soon as I landed, it was a red eye. We got the news that COVID was in New York City. When I got back to California, I was like this is it? I'm going to start an Instagram page. I'm ready to.

Adriana Michelle: 11:10

And the thing that's interesting when I reflect back, death wasn't even like at the forefront, it was more so. I wanted to talk about life, I wanted to talk about spiritual work, I wanted to just connect, and so I started a page called Amor y Alquimia, which is called Love and Alchemy. Okay, over time I mean it makes sense. During 2020, where death was everywhere I just it clicked. I was like this is what I'm supposed to talk about and through a life affirming, you know, through that lens of affirming life and how beautiful it is to be alive, through death and destruction and grief and loss and all of it.

Adriana Michelle: 11:48

But, yeah, I worked with a coach, changed my name to the death alchemist and just kind of hit the ground running and it has just been. It's snowballed ever since. And, yeah, when I introduced the, the, the film component, that's when things really took off. And that was just in the last two years where I was like let's bring more of like my personality and the things. I again life affirming, like how can we actually talk about this in a way that is fun for me and actually reach people? And that's what really exploded, you know, made everything kind of explode and I'm I'm super grateful for that yeah.

Aliya Cheyanne: 12:30

It's evolved.

Adriana Michelle: 12:31

I'll just say it's definitely evolved. It's evolved.

Aliya Cheyanne: 12:32

I'll just say it's definitely evolved. Yeah Well, first and foremost, thank you for sharing that and being so vulnerable, and you know parent loss is not something that's easy, so I'm holding space for you with that. Thank you for sharing that here. I think it's I don't take like synchronicities and coincidences like for granted, and I think what a special way to honor, for your friend and you, to honor your mothers, even though it's the chaos of COVID during that time it propelled you and launched you into finding your mission and your purpose and I think that's really beautiful, celebrating you and this evolution and you coming to your calling. I think that's really beautiful. So thank you for sharing that just origin story of your work with us.

Adriana Michelle: 13:21

Thank you and shout out Anisha, my friend Anisha, who was with me on that trip. I don't think she understands fully what that trip did for both of us, I think.

Aliya Cheyanne: 13:33

Wow, hi, anisha. So we'll talk about your love of film a little bit more, but I also think about just the love of shows, not always film, but like shows. Just recently, like, there's a show that I like called 911. It's about following these fictional first responder characters and one of them he has a near-death experience. His name is Buck and he has this very freakish near-death experience and in it he gets to know a death doula and they actually start dating at the end of one season. Then the new season comes back and it's like he was like they didn't work out, because all she wanted to talk about was death, death, death, death, death. It's like he was like they didn't work out, because all she wanted to talk about was death, death, death, death, death.

Aliya Cheyanne: 14:17

And I love just the beautiful explanation you made before of you know, acknowledging the pain and the grief and just the insurmountable amount of death that we're dealing with, but also celebrating life and what a privilege and a beauty and an honor it is to be alive. And I think about that sometimes when it comes to conversations around death, like people shy away from them so much to the point where things that you can do to prepare for death and acknowledge it as a natural part of life. That is inevitable. They don't get discussed and sometimes that's really hard for families when they experience a loss or, you know, for friends when they experience a loss, because we just don't talk about this kind of stuff.

Aliya Cheyanne: 15:06

And I'm very curious from your work and your experience and your culture and just your mindset, why it is you think we're so uncomfortable talking about death, especially in the West. Because, as you mentioned, like you know your, your culture, it's a, it's a part of your culture, it's a part of life, it's celebrated. And there's parts of the world where we don't talk about it. Like, and I'm very curious from your thinking like, why is that? Why don't we want to talk about it more?

Adriana Michelle: 15:38

I think there are several reasons, but the two that come to mind right now is capitalism. If you are in the rat race, solely focused on production and, honestly, survival, that's the truth People don't have time. I think that's part of it. People literally don't have the time to think about something that is so important. Like you said, they're being driven by this vehicle of capitalism. So I think that's part of it.

Adriana Michelle: 16:08

The other big part, I think, is the disconnection from our culture. If you are not connected to your culture, I think it's going to be even harder for you, because you maybe don't even have an ancestral practice. You don't even think about your ancestors, you don't think about the fact that. I guarantee you know every culture. Within every culture there is some sort of medicine, ritual preparation about.

Adriana Michelle: 16:33

You know not just death but any transition, whether it's like child preparation about. You know not just death but any transition, whether it's like childbirth, you know having children, getting. You know finding. You know getting married I'm sure in other cultures it's not called that, but you know what I mean like some sort of unions that that occur. I was just recently talking to someone about perimenopause and menopause. So it's all of these transitions that all have a cultural element and practice behind it, and so if you don't have that connection, it's easy to just go through life on autopilot and not honor any of the what I call little deaths, little transitions that we are experiencing and that we are meant to pause.

Adriana Michelle: 17:19

We are meant to honor, we are meant to witness it within ourselves, our loved ones, just in society, around the world. These things that are occurring, yeah, I would say those are the two biggest ones and they really do go hand in hand in my opinion. Yeah, it's just this fear, this big fear of not existing, and it's very fascinating to me because how many of the people, I think, how many of the people who are so terrified of death are actually not even living a full life. So to me, the fear of death is also a fear of life. Yeah, in a weird twist way that maybe might not make sense. Yeah, I would say those are the two biggest that I'm thinking of right now that come to mind Fear of death is also a fear of life, like I feel like that's very, that's very profound.

Aliya Cheyanne: 18:20

And when you were speaking, another thing I was thinking about was fear as well, the unknown and the unknown. Yeah, and I've like I feel like people say it anecdotally, but I've also just read accounts from like nurses and doctors were dealing with folks and treating folks who are on the brink of death and how many of them look back at their life and don't feel fulfilled with what they've done or don't feel like they lived enough. Versus something I saw the other day I feel you might have even shared it, to be honest, or maybe I saw it somewhere else but just what it means to be on your deathbed and to not fear the unknown because you lived well, you can greet death with laughter and kindness because you lived a full life. Blindness because you lived a full life.

Aliya Cheyanne: 20:12

Even thinking about that sends a little tingle down my spine, like how profound and wonderful that is to be able to greet death in that way. Even in my own family people are scared to talk about it. Some of us have beliefs around speaking things into existence and I get that, but at the same time I'm like it's inevitable. Everything transitions. It's what you do to prepare for that that makes your life well lived, and how you greet that transition is what's most important. So I love just your responses to that.

Adriana Michelle: 20:47

I love that so much. I mean, I think a lot of people can relate to what you're saying of like, don't speak it out into existence. But I think the thing, the key thing here, is that people need to realize it's not what you're talking about, it's how you're talking about it, yeah, yeah. So a message just came through in one of my groups. I did like a community call, uh, collective reading, and this feels very on point to share, so I'll share it that communication is a chariot.

Adriana Michelle: 21:18

So when it comes to speaking about death, talking about death, communicating about it, opening yourself up to even, you know, getting a little bit curious about it, even if it's just researching something or reading a book or watching a video or listening to this podcast, right, it's a vehicle. It's a vehicle for you to be somewhere else in where you are. I think it would be a shame to stay in the same space in terms of a fear around death, to never wiggle out. You know, like I'm envisioning like a chrysalis right To kind of transform, to wiggle out of it and move elsewhere, move out of whatever you're, you know, thinking about deaths, yeah.

Aliya Cheyanne: 22:03

Yeah, yeah.

Aliya Cheyanne: 22:04

I love that. I literally just this is very this is going to be random, but I'm bringing it home the chrysalis analogy, like just a previous guest I've had on the show, lavon Briggs. She made a video recently on social media about coming out of your cocoon and like recognizing the transformation and the destructive and chaotic and not beautiful process of that and then coming out of it like a beautiful butterfly. And then she felt affirmed because mech the stallion released a new album cover and it's her coming out of a cocoon of the chrysalis and, like you know, transforming into this beautiful thing. And I just love that analogy of you know going through that transformative process and coming out on the other side, using it as a vehicle for change and transformation. And coming out on the other side is just a more empowered and whole and fully human version of yourself. So I think that's really cool.

Aliya Cheyanne: 23:00

Yes, yeah, I think, also, just on that note of just fear, there's like a lot of collective grief that's happening right now as we look at so many things that are happening around the world, from Palestine to Sudan to Congo and there's just a lot of grief and death that many of us are witnessing and, more importantly, people there are experiencing firsthand and in response to that there are a lot of people who have kind of lost the fear of death, whether that looks like, you know, extreme forms of protest against those things.

Aliya Cheyanne: 23:40

We've seen some self-immolation here in the States, but also in Congo. And then there's an aspect of losing the fear of death that's not always related to collective grief and oppression. There's an aspect of it that people are just actually freaking, exhausted of surviving under the weight of capitalism and the weight of their lives, and I shared with you. I saw this TikTok where this creator was talking about death becoming an option for people in those situations. So I'm just curious your thoughts around losing the fear and death becoming an option in that way, as we're witnessing so much collective grief and trauma and death and exhaustion, given the state of the world today. Like any thoughts you have around that, it's so.

Adriana Michelle: 24:33

It's so in our face, you know, and it's horrifying, but there is a sense of gratitude that I have that people are willing to look at it now, or not even willing. It's inescapable at this point. If you are not seeing it, that is a choice, like you are fully and again for those who are listening, I'm not condoning or not condoning, but I'm not suggesting you traumatize yourself by just watching it. You know, incessantly. But the awareness is important.

Adriana Michelle: 25:04

So I think the awareness too, of what it looks like to have a violent death, one that is driven by greed and colonization, one that is driven by greed and colonization. I think through that lens as well, we're able to kind of look at the contrast between a lessening as well as like, wow I'm, you know I'm going to die one day, but you know, whatever what these people are experiencing, that probably won't be my experience, or it might not be my experience. So I think there's through that lens as well. I think about suicide as well. Yeah, you know, I've experienced suicidal ideations when, like, deep in crisis, right, a lot of people live with long term suicidal ideations, which is really tough and I think part of it as well is at least for me. Right, I won't speak for everybody, but I see it as when you're in that state, you've lost hope.

Aliya Cheyanne: 26:14

Yeah.

Adriana Michelle: 26:15

You don't see a way out, there is no sense of community. But you know that what you are experiencing, what the body that you're living in, the world that you're living in, is like something's got to give right. Yes, yes, you, a lot of people don't even necessarily want to die, like they don't want to. They don't want to check out, but they don't want to check out, but they don't want to continue to live in how things are, like the existence that they're living in. There has to be some sort of death, and death can just be change. So I think I feel like, for those out there who are feeling like hopeless, this is coming through to share. If you're devastated by what you're witnessing, that's normal. That means that you're open to seeing yourself in another person's shoes. That's a good thing. You're connected to your humanity and you recognize that we're all connected. I was just talking to someone about this. We're like you know someone living in India and then you. You might think that there's no connection there, but we are all siblings. We are all siblings.

Adriana Michelle: 27:30

What I'm feeling right now is just to remind people, like, when you're feeling hopeless, just really work on not staying there, and the best way to do that is to get out of your head and to move, to move that energy around, whatever that looks like for you. Um, I think what happens is, um, people feel hopeless because they're not doing anything about it. They're just witnessing, they're just looking at what's occurring, whether it's in their own lives, right, or in the world. You can't just stay stuck in that. I'm just, I'm doing my part by witnessing.

Adriana Michelle: 28:09

You have to do more than that to move in some way, whether it is just, you know, reaching out to you, know, local, local people in your community that also are feeling the same way. Yeah, you know it's. It seems like it might not be doing enough, but I promise that it is because it's going to give people, it's going to give you capacity. It's going to give you capacity to keep going and not stay stuck in it because it's freeze. It's like this freeze response right, it's a trauma response, it's very normal, but we can't exist in that, and that's also a symptom of colonization and capitalism is just to stay stuck and you might think in your mind that you're doing all these things and achieving things, but that's also still a freeze response if it's on autopilot.

Aliya Cheyanne: 29:03

I hope that answered your question.

Aliya Cheyanne: 29:05

Yeah, it did in a very big way, and what you're saying toward the end about it reminds me of the phrase get out of your head and get into your body.

Aliya Cheyanne: 29:16

Be mindful of where those feelings are, you know, coming up for you, like where that energy is circulating for you, but also move in a way that is beyond your mind and your body, like how do we tap into community care in those moments?

Aliya Cheyanne: 29:31

And I know it's not easy to share personal experience around suicidal ideation.

Aliya Cheyanne: 29:37

So thank you for being vulnerable and sharing that and, as you know, a question that I had for you, because you shared it on the VEDA podcast before, was just continuing to learn how to support people who are in that space, and something that you shared that was really beautiful was a quote around something you can say if someone confides that in you, because I've also had people confide in me suicidal ideation and I've immediately run to like what steps and actions can we take to get the person the support that they need? Like whether that's connecting to a professional, like talking to me, like if it's a situation where medication needs to be involved, like what do we need to do instead of just taking a breath and taking a moment and saying something as simple as like I'm willing to do anything in my capacity to support you, or whatever's in my capacity to support you, which is what you shared on the VEDA podcast, and I thought that was so beautiful. I love your advice around getting out of your head and getting out of that hopelessness and moving.

Aliya Cheyanne: 30:36

I love your advice around getting out of your head and getting out of that hopelessness and moving. But if you had any other encouraging words of just wisdom or anything that's coming to you in this moment for people who might be experiencing suicidal ideation, I would love to share that.

Adriana Michelle: 30:48

I don't mean to have anything. It's hard because, again, there's people who experience suicidal ideations just during a time of crisis and that lessens, right, it's not as bad, or it goes away entirely, and then maybe sometimes you still have it bubble up, and then there's people who live with it like on the daily, on the daily. So for people who live with it on the daily, I would say finding community, because if this is something that you are living with every day, you wake up and this is something you think about. You need community, you need support. Yeah, and I actually want to shout out a death doula named Kate. You can find her on IG. I think it's Kate Death Education and the population she speaks to is specifically people who are experiencing this and, as far as those who are in crisis, I would also say to reach out to community.

Adriana Michelle: 32:22

But I know it's not that simple, because part of suicide is that there's a sense of shame and isolation and feeling, or knowing right, that, like, people don't understand. So my just advice would be to recognize that the extreme feeling right, the extreme feeling that you are feeling right now, it's going to lessen. It's just really, really hard right now. There's an expression I can't remember the writer, but she says something like beauty or terror. No feeling is final right, no feeling is final beauty or terror.

Adriana Michelle: 33:04

Just hold on, essentially. Just hold on, keep going, because my whole thing about suicide, too, is that there's no going back. There are people who have survived it, obviously, but for the most part it's one of those things like, once you fulfill that idea, that decision, that's it. There's no returning. For those who are listening, who love someone who has suicidal ideations, I would say stop trying to fix the problem, because that's the other thing too. It's not just a personal issue to what they're saying. Listen to their pain, validate their reasons why they are in pain, the reasons why they don't want to be here anymore.

Adriana Michelle: 34:01

Yeah, they validate it right If you say, oh, I understand, yeah, I have felt this way before, I would feel the same as you. People assume that if you say something like that, then they're going to go ahead and do it. That's not how it works. If anything, you're just lessening that pain and that loneliness and the isolation and say someone sees me, someone understands why I feel this way, and it really lessens the shame of it.

Aliya Cheyanne: 34:36

Yeah, I think that's really powerful.

Aliya Cheyanne: 34:39

Thank you for sharing that Something that I struggle with and I don't want to be irresponsible with my words, but I especially I'm obviously Black and, like Black churches, black community can be very inhumane to people who are experiencing suicidal ideation. It's just very fire and brimstone type of energy. They call it very cowardly behavior, things like that, and I've always felt the exact opposite, because to have the mindset or the commitment or the dedication to do something that is so final that you cannot come back from is not cowardice. And I don't say that in a way to obviously I'm not encouraging, but I'm saying we have to think about these things differently, like in the language that we use to describe people who are in that state, because it's not as simple as the way certain institutions or certain communities often like to talk about it. So I think even you just sharing that advice around, allowing the person to be seen, to be comforted in that loneliness, to know that they are not actually alone, is just such a game changer and it's really powerful. So thank you for sharing that.

Adriana Michelle: 36:00

Thank you, aliyah, thank you for saying that about growing up and just that culture and I grew up going to Catholic church with my abuela, and so there is. I understand that culture influences the way we treat each other, the way we think about each other, and there's a gray. There's everything is so gray and we want it to be black and white and it just isn't. It isn't that way, we just need a little more compassion.

Adriana Michelle: 36:30

Yeah, we just need a little more compassion, and the thing I always come back to is that people who aren't able to access that and share them with others, it's because they weren't taught Maybe they were never reflected that Essentially, someone wasn't able to have compassion for them for X, y, z reason. So it goes back to what?

Adriana Michelle: 36:56

I was saying it's systemic, you know, yep, and it's molded by society, culture, religion, all of it, all of us. Well, thank you for sharing that it's. It's hard. It's hard to be like, hey, y'all, what are we, what are we doing? Yeah, but it's real and it's important to speak that out so people maybe can have a little like aha moment of like, wait a second. I don't want to do that like, is this actually hurting people? I thought it was just helping people. You know, pick themselves up and and tough love, something. My abuela would say all the time or not. My abuela, excuse me, I misspoke. After my mom died, my nia, my myuela, would say all the time or not. My abuela, excuse me, I misspoke. After my mom died, my aunt would always tell me your mom wouldn't want you to be sad, your mom wouldn't want you to be depressed. What do you have to be sad about, or something? And I'm like, are you kidding me? Yeah, just the denial of one's experience, that's it. The denial of one's experience, that's it.

Aliya Cheyanne: 37:53

Mm-hmm.

Adriana Michelle: 37:54

The denial of one's experience is so painful, yes, so painful. Yes, it adds right, it adds to what someone is already experiencing. So, yeah, yeah, compassion For sure, yes, yeah, and also being okay with not understanding what someone else is going through.

Aliya Cheyanne: 38:14

Yeah.

Adriana Michelle: 38:15

You don't have to understand to have compassion.

Aliya Cheyanne: 38:17

Yes, exactly, thank you for that I want to slightly shift gears in just that. Obviously, I keep referencing TikTok, but my algorithm brings me to things that I'm interested in, and death is something that I'm interested in. And recently I saw a video of a mother who's in late stages of stomach cancer and she hasn't given up. She's still trying to do holistic things to support herself, but she doesn't want to go through chemo or anything anymore and she asked her TikTok. She asked TikTok like what would you do if the doctor told you you have six months to live? Like, how would you prepare for death? And it was such a I watched it a few times because I was just trying to process as one human being to another, like the absolute, just like resolve and just stoicness that I saw like on her face even in asking that question. Yeah, she, and on the one hand, it almost felt like she was disconnected from the emotion of what she was asking of people, like how it looked to me and I kept looking at it like I I'd be personally, I'd be falling apart.

Aliya Cheyanne: 39:37

She's leaving behind a son and people in the comments were so just caring and kind to her and they were saying these are all the different things you can do. You can think about different anniversaries or ways that you would want to celebrate your son. Even if you're not here, you can send, set gifts and letters aside for him. Make sure you get your affairs in order in this way and that loved ones know where these passwords are. These files are just all these answers about preparing for death, and it felt overwhelming just viewing it and being present to that and witnessing that kind of preparation. It made me think a lot about what I would do to prepare if I knew my timeline to an extent. I'm just curious around your thoughts around what it looks like to prepare for death. I know you mentioned your experience as a doula and I'm just curious around your thoughts around what it looks like to prepare for death and I share that as an example of someone preparing for for death.

Adriana Michelle: 40:49

That's a great question. Definitely prepare before you hear something like you have six months to live. So yeah, that is. And also because that's such a rare it's not rare but it's not going to be everyone's experience like most people aren't going to be told you have six months to live. Experience most people aren't going to be told you have six months to live, yes, so that practical advice I think is good, of preparing a will, all of these things, the stages of grief a lot of people get it wrong. They assume that the stages of grief are for people who are grieving the loss of someone, but it's actually for people who are dying. So people are going to go through those stages. So I think just being aware of those stages of the bargaining, of the anger, of the acceptance, all of that is important.

Adriana Michelle: 41:34

The other practical advice I would give is like being open to palliative care, being open to to hospice care, not being afraid of that. A lot of people assume like if they accept palliative care, hospice care, then it's like they're going to die the next day or something. But it's mainly to offer comfort for the person who's dying through medication. Obviously, death, doula, is more of a spiritual component, emotional component. So, having all of those lined up and I'm fully aware that these aren't resources that are available to everyone, which is really awful, but those two are definitely in the forefront of my mind and the other one, too, is making peace with yourself, forgiving yourself.

Adriana Michelle: 42:20

I think a lot of people assume, like well, on my deathbed, I'm going to reach out to so-and-so and make amends and ask for forgiveness, and that's not how it works. I think a lot of the times, you have to actually forgive yourself for the things that you got wrong, for the things that you didn't do because you were afraid. Forgiving yourself, I think, is a really, really, really big one. I was just going to say that the other component of terminal illnesses is the preparation behind it. Maybe you have six months, maybe even two months. Right, it's this knowing.

Adriana Michelle: 42:58

It makes me think of sudden death, right. So, like a car accident, things like that, that's really really hard and it can be very traumatic for people who are left behind. But this is going to sound really weird and I'm not saying everyone, do this if it's not your cup of tea or if it's going to make you spiral. Yeah, I think about it a lot. I think about what I would, how I would react, what would I do if I was involved in some sort of accident where it was just a sudden death and I was laying on the couch, I think, and I was just kind of like thinking about it, like what would I do? Like I'm in a car accident, they remove me from the car, right, they're like working on me. Well, what do I do? And I just was like I would just be in it, I would I don't want to say surrender, but I would just do as much as I could to relax, because that can also save your life when you are in a panic and a lot of it is like you can't really control.

Adriana Michelle: 44:02

Yeah, um, there's someone I met, actually, who was involved in a motorcycle accident and her femoral artery was cut. Oh, wow. And this angel came like, saw the accident, came up and like, took off her shirt and, you know, put it, wrapped it around her leg as a tourniquet and was like, if you keep, you're hyperventilating, if you don't calm down, if you don't study your breathing, you're going to die. And she just was like and then slowed down her breathing. So it is kind of like a death meditation, I would say, to think about it.

Adriana Michelle: 44:31

And it's hard because a lot of people ruminate on death and it's more of like an intrusive thought that comes over them. So you need to kind of know the difference. And it's really it's a personal journey because I've done both. I've done both. But just recently, this week, I was like what would I do? And I was like I would just read, like steadying my breath, and that's probably that's either going to save my life or it's going to help me enter the next stage of existence, of whatever this is, in a peaceful way or as peaceful as it can be. Yeah, so it's a little bit of a death meditation that I just I don't know I felt like sharing. It's hard. I know there might be some people listening like, why would you do that to yourself? It really brings me a sense of peace, to just prepare before die, before you die, I think is the expression Die before you die.

Aliya Cheyanne: 45:29

Yeah, I love what you were saying. We took a little pause, but you were saying something about preparing before it happens to an extent, and I think there are practical things you can do to do that, starting with having conversations. But I love the phrase death meditation. Actually, I've never heard that before and I think it gives me language for something that I do regularly.

Aliya Cheyanne: 45:52

I think about my mortality and the mortality of people. I love all the time, to the point it's not always healthy, but to the point where I'll start crying by thinking about the loss and how I will navigate losing them. I don't always think about me, it's always how I'll feel losing them and I love the language of death meditation. That gives me a phrase to use versus like I'm constantly thinking about my mortality and the mortality of others. It just feels more, I don't know. It feels better. So I like that language. Thank you for that.

Aliya Cheyanne: 46:35

We're getting toward the end, but there's two things you touched on that I did want to get into anyway. So one of them is around for those who are left behind after loss losing the people that we care about, or even pet loss losing the pets that we care about like just dealing with that grief. You mentioned acknowledging the stages of grief, not just for the person dying but also for the person experiencing losing someone. What sort of tools can those of us left behind think about when we've experienced loss or when we're preparing for?

Adriana Michelle: 47:12

loss. It's interesting because that question I look back after my mom died in 2015,. I think about the things that I didn't do that I think would be helpful to folks, but I also understand the pushback against it. So, for example, after my mom died, I was given, you know, like a pamphlet for a grief, grief counseling and grief groups and things like that. I was not in the space to accept it because it felt cold, it felt like a business and even though it was free right, it was like a year of free counseling I was so deep in denial, I think, over what happened, because I was so accepting of her impending death, that I went the other way.

Adriana Michelle: 48:01

Something she had told me was like just take a few days off work and I want you back at work when I die. I don't want you. I think she just didn't want me to suffer as a mother. But I think that's part of it is like if you prolong, if you delay the grief, you're going to cause suffering to yourself. Yes, if you surrender to it a little more, if you open yourself up to it, if you are not understanding, but if you admit to yourself. Maybe I'm in denial, maybe I'm pushing feelings away. Maybe I'm in shock. Maybe there is a component of post-traumatic stress disorder or something right, just some sort of what we call it is, um, soul loss, susto, you know where your spirit kind of leaves your body after a traumatic event just to to survive, essentially to be able to, to keep going after that.

Adriana Michelle: 49:31

I think, admitting it, being open to things like that maybe it's not a group counseling through a hospital, but it's something. It's keeping their memory alive, keeping the connection alive by talking to your loved ones about them. That's something I did a lot. I would talk about my mom incessantly. It was like mom, this mom, that mom, that, and obviously other practices and rituals, like setting up an altar and that can be secular. You don't need to believe in anything, you can just believe in the connection that you have and want to honor the person, honor the grief that you're feeling, and it can be as simple as like a photograph, a candle, a glass of water, some flowers, yeah, and being able to go into a room and see them.

Adriana Michelle: 50:27

There is a really good way to kind of push back on any sort of denial or like freeze response yeah, because you are seeing a picture of them every day and you are, you know, not in denial of it, because you can see them and it kind of trains your brain like, well, I'm seeing this photograph of them, I can't call them, right, I can't just pick up the phone and call them. So it's simple, things like that. And also, just, it's not even time, right, because the whole thing about the stages of grief for people who are terminally ill is that there's an end. You know an estimate of like a few months, six months a year, few months, six months a year with grief. You're like I'm going to live with this for the next 30, 40, 50 years.

Adriana Michelle: 51:20

So the stages of grief for someone who's grieving, it's more of a spiral. I always look at life itself as like a spiral. So we are coming back. We're never really are coming back, we're never really leaving entirely an emotion and a memory that we might have with our loved one. We are just traversing that spiral path and returning to it yeah, that's so beautiful.

Aliya Cheyanne: 51:46

I love that. Um, thank you for sharing that. I think one thing that I know I want to do is to I'm not sure if you've heard of Aalua Arthur. Yeah, she's going with Grace and yeah, I know she just came out with a book and I want to read her book. I think it's Recy Perfisuman or something like that. I want to read it, it's so good.

Aliya Cheyanne: 52:09

Yeah, I've come across this idea of doing like a grief letter ritual, thinking about those stages of grief and writing to that loved one and however you decide to either keep it or destroy it after, whatever is symbolic to you, whatever means the most, like just the idea of like writing those thoughts and feelings down to help you process those emotions and get them out of your head and your body, and on paper too. I love that. I love what you shared, too, about just keeping the memory of the loved one alive, like speaking, like how you spoke about your mother often and still do. I think that's really special and don't judge me, me but it reminds me of coco because, like, well, just the idea that remembering is important, because it helps to feed the spirit of that loved one and that ancestor and keep them, keep them with us, you know. So I love, I love that I love coco.

Adriana Michelle: 53:09

I'm not like, I'm not offended like oh, that's such a. You know what? Do you call it Like a? I forget what I was trying to say but you know what I mean.

Aliya Cheyanne: 53:17

I'm not a part of Mexican culture but I think it's beautiful, like just the idea around El Dia de los Muertos and like what it symbolizes and what it means to remember and honor ancestors. I think that's really beautiful and like continuing to speak about them even long after they're gone keeps their memory and their spirit alive. So I think that's beautiful. The other thing too.

Adriana Michelle: 53:51

This just came through because I just had a dream about my mom was in the dream last night. Oh, it is a dream work practice. I love dreams. Yes, a dream practice, like you know. Sometimes they just pop in when they want, but other times you can ask, yeah, before you go to bed you'd be like, hey, like let's go to the, and it might help too to recall a memory. So it's actually something that's like a little more, a little more tangible, yeah, easier for you to to slip into, like, let's, let's go back to that memory. You know we had our, we had a tea party or whatever, and then slip into the dream and and see them. You know it's our dreams to us, our bodies, like it's real. You know we can't really differentiate the difference between a dream and real life.

Aliya Cheyanne: 54:40

Yeah, yeah, I think the some people haters will like to say that it's just subconscious, but to everyone who's spiritual it is not, I actually had a dream about my grandfather the night before he passed. He came to our house and he was like I don't know what he was looking for, but he was in the house just looking at everything and touching little things. And I'm saying, grandpa, what are you doing here? You're supposed to be in bed, you're supposed to be relaxing, what are you doing? And he wouldn't speak. He was just looking at everything and touching everything and I was trying to lead him back to his bed and he wasn't talking. But I was leading him back to his bed and it cut off. I didn't get him back to his bed, I just led him. I was taking him back to his bed in his room and before we could get there the dream ended and I woke up and then the next day he actually he passed. So I think about that dream all the time.

Adriana Michelle: 55:44

I would too. I'm sure it really, I'm sure it confirmed the connection you have and also just the awareness of like you have, and also just the awareness of like something, something we can't see, something that maybe is not meant, is this unknown, like question mark, and there's definitely something there that's so beautiful yeah, it's like it's bittersweet, but it is beautiful.

Aliya Cheyanne: 56:08

and I I remember too, like he. He kept seeing a friend before he was passing and he was saying that his friend was coming to get him on a Tuesday and he was very confused about the day and he was just like Wait was this in waking life.

Adriana Michelle: 56:23

He was saying that, yes, in waking he was already seen, he was already aware.

Aliya Cheyanne: 56:29

Yes, and then he kept saying it and then he, he passed on a tuesday. So I always like to say that his friend was this, the person, like the loved one, who had passed before him. The friend was the one who, like, ushered him, definitely wherever you know yes, that's, it's true.

Adriana Michelle: 56:47

It's true. The last time I saw my abuela, she told me she was going to die. Like I remember I fed her a mango. I'll never forget this. I cut, we cut up a mango and I fed her mango and she had all this mango juice like dripping down her chin. She was so happy, it was so like, it was so good, yeah. And then I remember we got into bed and I was kind of spooning her and then she was like I'm ready. She said I'm ready to die. And I just was like no, you, I did the whole thing, no, no, no. And then less than a month later she died. So they know, they do know In many ways, yeah, especially when they get reach elderhood, like it's more of a connection, you know that that phase, that transition is, is coming up for them, that initiation is right there and they're, they're ready in many ways. You know, what do you?

Adriana Michelle: 57:38

think or believe happens after we die I think we return, whatever you want to call it. Source, like returning to source the word that came to mind just now is like primordial soup. Yes, it's this universal soup that we all will return to, and I feel this through talking to people, experiences that I've had, dreams that I've had too. I had a dream with Prince where he basically showed me that, like he fully showed me that there's not only an afterlife, but that we reincarnate. No, and he's, he's a guide of mine I know it sounds super weird like you don't even know, he's, he's a, he's a collective ancestor is how I feel. Yes, yes, so I think we return. Yeah, we return.

Adriana Michelle: 58:29

I feel I don't know. I feel it's going to be very like a party kind of yes, you know, and peaceful, yeah, and I don't know. I know a lot of people don't feel that way. I would just say whatever you feel is fine, but also be curious and open to being wrong. Yes, hearing other people's perspectives and ideas on it. I think being so stuck on like this is what it is. It's heaven and hell and that's it. Yeah, I just feel like how boring first, very, it doesn't leave any room for imagination. Yeah, and that's my whole thing, imagination, yeah, and that's my whole thing, circling back to the very beginning of the call of the. Yeah, our call is like reimagining life, death, yes, humanity, grief, all of it yeah, I, I love that.

Aliya Cheyanne: 59:26

And it goes back to what you're saying before about the, just the spiral, or the sphere, the spiral, everything. Yeah, the spiral, everything coming back full circle. And I, I feel pretty similarly that we return to source. Whatever you call that, god, universe, whatever religion's name is for that entity, I think we return there. I I joke slash, not joke all the time that when I, when I die, like I want to be like a gaseous nebula, I just want to be like a nebula floating around in space. I want to be able to. Time and space doesn't need to be a thing for me, I just want to be free. It's not going to be. It's like anywhere, everywhere, I want to go.

Adriana Michelle: 1:00:10

Yes, I fully agree. That's's the dream I had. I was floating around in a void, I was with my stepfather, who was actually in the hospital dying, and I had that dream and prince came in to help.

Adriana Michelle: 1:00:25

And it's funny because, like when you, when I tell people that dream, they get really freaked out because they're like, wait, you were just floating in nothingness, how scary. And I was like, no, it felt like I was in a womb and I was in a universal womb, yeah, and I was just. It felt great, it felt really peaceful yeah, yeah, I also believe in reincarnation.

Aliya Cheyanne: 1:00:46

But I'm like, if earth is like this, I don't want to go back. Just let me float around the space for a little bit, give me a break. Yeah, yeah, you know that little spirit and that little animated, animated movie soul that didn't want to come back to earth. Yeah, like it's a cute little movie, but there was one little spirit that was like I don't want to come back and eventually they came back. But that's me anyway. What was the movie? What was the soul? It's like a little animated movie. It came out a few years ago, right?

Adriana Michelle: 1:01:15

Yes, yeah, I think I missed it. I'm going to have to watch it now.

Aliya Cheyanne: 1:01:18

Yes, yeah, it's a cute little. They tried to do their thing with that. So just to wrap up before we go, I saw something the other day. It was a quick little clip of an NPR thing. Someone was interviewing Issa Rae, who some folks may know from creating the show Insecure, and they were talking a little bit about death. And the interviewer asked Issa like what is something you see that's like a sign that reminds you of a loved one who's like passed on? And Issa, like what is something you see that's like a sign that reminds you of a loved one who's like passed on? And Issa shared that whenever she sees hummingbirds it reminds her of that special someone. And for me it's definitely a few it's cardinals, it's blue jays, it's hawks. So I'm just curious for you if you have a sign or an indicator, whether it be an animal or a flower, anything of that nature that kind of reminds you of your loved ones. You know, if you feel comfortable sharing.

Adriana Michelle: 1:02:23

Of course there are a few and they're definitely ancestrally, you know, connected the hummingbird, yes, yes. Butterflies, yes, marigolds, the flower, and, honestly, sometimes just a feeling, yeah, earlier this week this is so random but I was like making a smoothie and I was like, oh, I'm out of like my fancy dragon fruit, like what am I gonna do? And I was like, oh, I'm just gonna grab like an apple, banana, coconut water and like a lot of ice. And so I I made this smoothie and I like drink it. And as I was drinking it, I was like, oh, yeah, my abuela used to drink these, like every morning, and when I was little, we would drink these, you know, we would drink these together.

Adriana Michelle: 1:03:08

We were always in the kitchen together and it just was a moment of like, oh, like she's here, you know, and even little things like that is a good, good, great way to honor your loved ones too is through ancestral foods. Yes, and just, the food doesn't even have to be ancestor, ancestral food, it can just be food they liked, you know, yeah, whatever, whatever it may be, yeah, so, yeah, that was just something that came up recently where I was like, oh, I'm making this smoothie and it like made me think of her and, yeah, it was nice, and I had one this morning too and it was really good.

Aliya Cheyanne: 1:03:41

Oh, I love that. Yeah, that's beautiful. Thank you for sharing so before we dip out. So you've expressed many times um that you have a love of like cinematography and film, like. That's evident to me, and even your work on the death alchemist page on instagram and also the vila podcast. So I would love to know if there's a film that maybe you're looking forward to watching this week or you watched recently that brought you some sense of like joy or comfort.

Adriana Michelle: 1:04:13

If there's one you can think of so I actually have an older television show and also okay film that is from last year that I've just been watching a lot and it's, yes, it's related to death but also just like a different type of death that we experience some of us through life. But the television show is ugly betty, it's from the early 2000s and, yeah, if you watch it there is such a threat of death like they're constantly talking about death in that show and obviously it's ugly betty. You know she's, she's mexican in. Uh, in that film I think america ferrer is actually um dominican. In the show she's, she's mexican and that's her thing and you know her family's from and it's just like super cute. So that show is like a comfort and it's so hopeful and like she's such a dreamer and she really creates yeses out of no's, like she doesn't really take no for an answer and I really dig that like just that, that spirit that she has.

Adriana Michelle: 1:05:17

Yeah, and as far as films, the film, it's a korean film called past lives, okay, and yeah, there isn't a death. You know like how we think of it. It's more of a an immigrant story. You know, of what it's like to be uprooted from your homeland and coming. You know, I think they moved in the film. They moved to canada and then this character moves to new york city and she has this like first love, like childhood love that's still back in korea, and then she's meet someone but then she's still thinking about him and just the grief of of that again not necessarily a physical loss film, but it is about grief and it is about ancestry and I think anyone can connect to that film. Yeah, it is just. It's so good, it's okay, it's beautiful, okay.

Aliya Cheyanne: 1:06:14

I'm in to check that out myself. Yeah, thank you for sharing that. I, like last year, just separately, like last year, my um I went with my best friend to Mexico for her birthday in November and it was my first time and we were all over the place. We went to Puebla, we went to Oaxaca we're in Mexico City, of course and a couple of other places, and it was just so beautiful to me and it was a few weeks after El Dia de los Muertos, so I didn't get to see just how much the country and the cities come alive during that time, but there were remnants of it while we were there during that time, but there were remnants of it while we were there, and just an incredible energy, a beautiful place, and I learned so much about just the history of Mexico and the many cultures and civilizations that created what it is today.

Aliya Cheyanne: 1:07:10

There was a through line of death in almost everything, from learning about historical cultures and civilizations to up until present day, and I just thought that was really beautiful and grounding. And I'm just like deeply honored to have had this conversation with you today to talk more about this, and I find your work so inspiring and it's been so great to just dive into this with you. Not many people can treat the topic with so much just care and attention and tenderness, and you do that so beautifully always. This has been such an honor, so thank you for taking time to chat with me today about this, and I know it will be really valuable to my audience.

Adriana Michelle: 1:07:49

Aaliyah, thank you for those like just your presence and for your amazing questions, and I'm so glad you got to go to Mexico and experience that and I hope you go back. I really want to go back as well and visit so many different places. Thank you so much for this and thank you everyone for listening. I just honored. Thank you.

Aliya Cheyanne: 1:08:15

Thank you. Can you let folks know where to find out more about you, to support your work?

Adriana Michelle: 1:08:22

Yes, so, as Aaliyah mentioned, I'm on Instagram. You can find me at at the death alchemist. I also have a podcast with my colleague and friend, claudine, called Vida Podcast. Vida is life and my website is amor. So love, e and alchemia, which means alchemy, and yeah, there's all the goodies there. I'm doing one-on-one work with people, as well as a new community that I just opened up called Love and Alchemy, and that's like a monthly thing for those who want to go deeper with not just me, but like with other like-minded individuals. Oh cool, it's been amazing. Yeah, I'm so excited to see the next like seven months, like the end of the year, to see like how much it grows.

Aliya Cheyanne: 1:09:10

So thank you, I love that and I'll be sure to link all of that in the show notes for folks. Thank you so much, adriana. This is so necessary and so important. You are such a wonder and I absolutely appreciated being in conversation with you. So thank you to everyone listening.

Aliya Cheyanne: 1:09:50

I hope that you were able to take something from this episode for yourself or maybe for someone in your community or someone in your network, and I hope that you found it as special and valuable and amazing as I did. If this episode resonated with you in any capacity, please feel free to share it with your friends, your family, your co-workers, anyone in your network, and if you want to share your thoughts with me on this episode, you can send a text to the show, you can send in a voice note. I would love to share your feedback in a future episode and I would love to hear from you in general. Thank you so much for tuning in. If you listened and you made it to the end, I invite you to take a deep breath in and let it out. Please, friends, do whatever you need to do to support yourself and take care of yourself after tuning into this episode, and I will catch you next week. Thanks so much for tuning in. Bye.